Flight delay and cancellation compensation, KLM/AF ONLY

111KAB

zweety wrote: »

If it isn't and AF lied, then I am entitled to the 250 euros per ticket...

Looks like you are entitled then.

David_e

zweety wrote: »

As far as I understand, since it was cancelled due to a "technical issue that was encountered unexpectedly and which presents itself beyond our scope of influence" the compensation are not applicable.

And the "National Enforcement Body of Ireland" (equivalent of CAA in UK) is the only body regulated to check that this is correct. If it is, I am screwed. If it isn't and AF lied, then I am entitled to the 250 euros per ticket...

Looks like you've been researching in the wrong place. Read the FAQs and you'll get a far better idea of the true position.

zweety

Thanks, where's the link for the FAQ?

Limana68

HI guys
Well I have had a defence from KLM solicitors
Heres a piece of their 4 page letter

" The flight was delayed because of technical problems with the airport suppliers fuelling system and the air traffic control issues which amounted to extraordinary circumstances."
As a result of the delay caused by the fuel supplier ( 9 minutes) air traffic control in Kuala Lumpur(3 minutes) and air traffic control in Amsterdam(13 minutes) flight KLM812 arrived 25 minutes late into Amsterdam at 1600.The late arrival caused the claimant to miss the connecting flight.
En route to Amsterdam airport head winds and air traffic control corridors congestion and resulted in an additional delay of 13 minutes before the sircraft was allowed to land.
An operating air carrier shall not be obliged to pay compensation in accordance with article 7 if it can prove that the cancellation is caused by extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken. ""

I have now at a loss as to what to do. Any initial thoughts before I trawl through all the regulations etc.Have I got any hope of winning this case or not.

Thanks for any help

Li

Vauban

Limana68 wrote: »

HI guys
Well I have had a defence from KLM solicitors
Heres a piece of their 4 page letter

" The flight was delayed because of technical problems with the airport suppliers fuelling system and the air traffic control issues which amounted to extraordinary circumstances."
As a result of the delay caused by the fuel supplier ( 9 minutes) air traffic control in Kuala Lumpur(3 minutes) and air traffic control in Amsterdam(13 minutes) flight KLM812 arrived 25 minutes late into Amsterdam at 1600.The late arrival caused the claimant to miss the connecting flight.
En route to Amsterdam airport head winds and air traffic control corridors congestion and resulted in an additional delay of 13 minutes before the sircraft was allowed to land.
An operating air carrier shall not be obliged to pay compensation in accordance with article 7 if it can prove that the cancellation is caused by extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken. ""

I have now at a loss as to what to do. Any initial thoughts before I trawl through all the regulations etc.Have I got any hope of winning this case or not.

Thanks for any help

Li

This could be tricky. Air traffic control issues are certainly extraordinary. However ...

I think the Eglitis judgement might be helpful, which says that airlines need to build some reasonable space into their schedules so that - when confronted by ECs - they can nevertheless prevent further delays (such as missed connections). I think you would argue that the operational decision to schedule a connection that could be lost through minor delays shows they have not taken all reasonable measures as defined by Eglitis, and that this was something definitely in their control.

Not straightforward though ...

razorsedge

Limana68 wrote: »

An operating air carrier shall not be obliged to pay compensation in accordance with article 7 if it can prove that the cancellation is caused by extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken.

They have written it themselves in their defence. They are going to have to prove all the claims they have made as to why your flight was delayed.

Limana68

Thanks guys
Im thinking of getting one of these no win no wins solicitors on board................even though I have read up on the FAQs etc its still quite complicated, this case isnt just about the money, it was a complete nightmare as hubby is disabled and one of kids was sick throughout the whole flight so having to hang around at Amsterdam airport for an extra 5 hrs then arriving back at Man so late, not getting home till 2 am in the morning all adds to this case, so IM not gonna give.

What is interesting in this case is that this was the first letter I had back from them, which mentions technical problems,which I assume is with the aircraft, but now they are saying it was delay due to lack of a fuel supplier!

""The flight concerned was delayed due to technical problems by 12 minutes, which subsequently caused you to miss your onward connection. A technical issue like this, that is encountered unexpectedly, which presents itself beyond our scope of influence and is a threat to flight safety, can be regarded as an extraordinary circumstance and therefore is not one here there is an entitlement to compensation under EU regulations.
I can assure you that all reasonable measures were taken in order to minimize the impact of this delay, including contacting passenger in advance when and where possible, providing all care and assistance due and arranging alternative flights.
We have thoroughly reviewed your claim and have taken into account all involved details of this specific flight delay. As a result, we must respectfully decline your request for legal compensation.""



When I asked them to clarify the technical issue- this was the response

""Thank you again for your message received in our offices on 9 April 2013 in relation to the incident occurred with flight KL812 on 3 January 2013 from Kuala Lumpur to Amsterdam and please, accept our apologies for our late reply.
As we mentioned in our previous reply, the above flight was delayed due to an unexpected technical fault on the aircraft. We did all we could to offer you the best possible care and assistance.
Having reviewed your file and again taken into consideration all the relevant information about this particular flight, we can confirm that the cause of the delay is considered as ''extraordinary" according to the European Union Regulation. Therefore, we regret to inform you that you are not entitled to the compensation established the EU261/2004 Regulation. ""

So now they appear to be going down a completely different track??

David_e

Limana68 wrote: »

So now they appear to be going down a completely different track??

Seems to be a common complaint. I'd just get on with appointing a no win no fee lawyer, if that's your preferred route. You're unlikely to get any sense or compensation by continuing your correspondence with the airline.

PamG

Hello,

I booked a flight through Opodo with AF for return flights from Cairo on 23rd Feb 2011. It was a two part flight, should have landed in Paris and then in Manchester.

I got a call whilst away and informed that my first flight had been cancelled. This was delayed by about five hours. Because of this we missed our second flight and instead of arriving home at 0815, we landed home approx 2200/2300 to Manchester.

I only have the email of the flight confirmation with the flight numbers. I can confirm that the first flight was cancelled, but because we missed the second flight I don't have any details of which flight we were booked onto. The second flight on my itinery was on time, but we missed that.

Any ideas if I can claim on both flights (although I can't find record of the 2nd leg) or if I could just claim on the first one?

Hope someone can help

Vauban

PamG wrote: »

Hello,

I booked a flight through Opodo with AF for return flights from Cairo on 23rd Feb 2011. It was a two part flight, should have landed in Paris and then in Manchester.

I got a call whilst away and informed that my first flight had been cancelled. This was delayed by about five hours. Because of this we missed our second flight and instead of arriving home at 0815, we landed home approx 2200/2300 to Manchester.

I only have the email of the flight confirmation with the flight numbers. I can confirm that the first flight was cancelled, but because we missed the second flight I don't have any details of which flight we were booked onto. The second flight on my itinery was on time, but we missed that.

Any ideas if I can claim on both flights (although I can't find record of the 2nd leg) or if I could just claim on the first one?

Hope someone can help

Depends if you were on a "through" ticket - Cairo to Manchester (via Paris) or if you were on two tickets. If you booked via a third party, you could be on two separate tickets.

If the latter, and if the rescheduled flight from Paris was rescheduled within 14 days of travel, and got you into Paris three hours late or more, you would be entitled to €400, as the distance is just under 3500km. But nothing for the second flight in this scenario.

If the former, and with the 14 day caveat above, you would be entitled to €600 if you arrived more than 4 hours late (as Cairo to Manchester is just over 3500km).

Obviously, all this assumes your flight wasn't cancelled for reasons that would qualify as "extraordinary" - or you would be entitled to nowt.