Flight delay and cancellation compensation, Ryanair ONLY

Popenator

Hi
I am a resident of the Republic of Ireland and in March 2013 flew to Faro from Dublin on a nice holiday.

Coming back however, the flight was delayed by 6.45hrs

So, I wrote off too Ryanair with the standard MoneySaving Expert letter. My complaint is fairly straightforward i.e.

I was delayed by x duration, given the flight was y distance my entitlement to compensation is 400 euros.

They have replied with a generic letter we're all familiar with:
The flight was delayed due to an unexpected safety/technical problem with the aircraft. It was necessary to delay the departure until the fault was rectified and the aircraft was cleared for operation by our engineering department.

So they wont pay out etc.

If anyone would be kind enough to pick out the relevant reference cases that support the argument that the excuse they've given isn't sufficient to deny compensation, I'd really appreciate it.

This is a straightforward matter with plenty of support in my favour, I think I just need some assistance with constructing my response and the relevant references.

With regards to taking the matter further, can I take it to ECJ or would I have to deal with the local court services first as I'm an Irish resident?

Thanks in advance.

Richard

blondmark

This information has been redacted

Ich_2

You may also find that the process may be different in Eire than the UK

Popenator

blondmark wrote: »

Just to clarify, you wouldn't take action using the European Small Claims Procedure (Form A) because that is for cross border disputes, and both you and the Defendant are Irish. You would instead sue in the small claims track in the Irish courts.

Start by familiarising yourself with [case, and read through the others mentioned in the FAQs.

Thanks for both of your replies.
I would prefer to avoid using the SCC in Ireland because of cost and the unscrupulous nature of the Irish legal system and those that practice law here. But thats just my opinion.

Can you tell me if using the ECC would be an alternative way to go? The MSE flight delay site seems to suggest it would.

In terms of a response to Ryanair, can I simply say something to the effect of "in keeping with the judgment of the Court of Justice of the European Union in C-549/07 Wallentin-Hermann v Alitalia, judgement of 22 December 2008, the assessment that the said flight was delayed due to Extraordinary Circumstances is not valid cause to deny compensation."

Or would I need to write something more convoluted and legally complex.

Help is appreciated.
Thanks!
Richard

Popenator

Ich wrote: »

You may also find that the process may be different in Eire than the UK

Its an EU law, so I certainly have the same rights. How I go about leveraging those rights might be different, as you say. Hopefully i'll get clarity on here.

Ich_2

Hopefully i'll get clarity on here.

As you are about the first Eire resident to go down the process I think you will be providing the clarity

blondmark

This information has been redacted

Monsieur_Abeille

Hi

First of all thanks for the great advice posted here by those willing to spend time helping others.

I sent off a claim to Ryanair in respect of a twelve hour delay over two years ago which seems to have followed a predictable pattern judging from other comments here.

They replied that the claim was beyond the two year limit, and I countered citing the UK limit of 6 years as per ECJ case C‑139/11, Joan Cuadrench Mor! v Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij NVons (sorry cant post link as newbie, but its been mentioned before in this thread).

They then replied with the "unexpected technical fault" and "extraordinary circumstances" argument, to which I countered quoting C-549/07 Wallentin Hermann V Alitalia and C‑402/07 /C‑432/07, Sturgeon and others v Air France - again as mentioned here.

They refused to to accept this argument so I initiated proceedings via the European Small Claims in my local county court in the UK.

Ryanair have disputed the claim - the "unexpected technical fault" now turns out to be a "master caution light tripping the aircraft battery circuit breaker" which they say necessitated inspection by a "duly licensed engineer" who had to be flown in from Dublin.

In their reply to the court they have attached

• a case Clissold v Ryanair held in Colchester county court. in which the district judge largely agreed with Ryanair,

• A very lengthy solicitors opinion on the legality under Irish law of the validity of the two year limitation period to support Ryanair's arguments in German proceedings (doesnt say which ones)

• A case Blackman v Ryanair heard in Peterborough court which appears to have been included for no reason other than it asserts that Ryanair have a known aim of providing low cost flights

Ryanair requested an oral hearing in my case "if the court believes it would be helpful in its assessment of specialist areas of aviation law and practice". the District Judge has now ordered an Oral hearing.

So (and thanks for bearing with me this far) - I would appreciate any opinions as to how I should approach this case. Do I need a lawyer of my own (I've no real legal knowledge), or should I just arm myself up with the facts and hope that the law comes down on my side?

Having come this far I am not inclined to let it rest, but any cost to me will be a consideration.

Vauban

Monsieur_Abeille wrote: »

Hi

First of all thanks for the great advice posted here by those willing to spend time helping others ...


In their reply to the court they have attached

• a case Clissold v Ryanair held in Colchester county court. in which the district judge largely agreed with Ryanair ...

Having come this far I am not inclined to let it rest, but any cost to me will be a consideration.

Good for you - I am certain that folk here will do all they can to help you get some justice. Blondmark's post here - http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=60630435&postcount=194 - on the Clissold case shoudl be very helpful, in case not yet seen.

SuperReds08

blondmark wrote: »

Give them 14 days to evidence with full particularity:

(a) the nature of the operational difficulties cited, and the flight number this allegedly occurred on;

(b) how these difficulties, if they did occur, are relevant to your flight;

(c) the nature of the earlier technical safety/technical problem cited, and the flight number this allegedly occurred on;

(d) how these difficulties, if they did occur, are relevant to your flight;

(e) why the alleged difficulties referred to in (a) and (c) are said to be outside the airline's control;

(f) the steps taken, if any, to ensure that the alleged difficulties referred to in (a) and (c) did not result in a delay to your flight.

If, after the expiration of 14 days (or such later time as you agree with them) they have not provided documentary proof, sue them.

Just to (hopefully) finish this story, I wrote again to Ryanair with the questions above and have received a letter confirming that they will be settling within the next 10-15 days.

I am assuming at this stage I will receive the funds so just wanted to thank those who went out of their way to respond to my questions and help me though this. :beer: