Flight delay and cancellation compensation, Tui/Thomson ONLY

shibumi

Quick update. Court went ahead yesterday and judge found in our favour.  Thank you for all the advice 

eskbanker

shibumi said:

Quick update. Court went ahead yesterday and judge found in our favour.  Thank you for all the advice 

Thanks for updating, what are you able and willing to share about what was discussed and the basis of the judgment?

shibumi

TUI submitted the hearing bundle late which didn’t get them off to a good start. Also TUI only sent in a barrister and not the witness so the judge was unable to question the TUI evidence. Since TUIs evidence never mentioned the late pilot swap he found their evidence incomplete. On balance of probabilities he found my evidence more credible (screenshots of arrivals /departures of other flights at Corfu after short delays). TUI tried to discredit my evidence as tabloid exaggeration despite it quoting a TUI spokesperson. Ultimately the judge didn’t consider the delay of either flight as being due to extraordinary circumstances. 

Steviek_2

Could anyone help with some advice? We were due to fly from LBA to Corfu on 20.10.23 when the incoming flight skidded off the runway resulting in the airport eventually closing. We were bussed to Mcr [where we live) and eventually landed in Corfu 7 hours late. Coming home the pilot decided to divert to Mcr again causing a further 5.5 hour delay. Both claims have been denied outgoing airport was closed couldn’t operate flight incoming weather. My argument is 1. The airport was closed due to their pilots error [no other airline caused the problem) and again 2. No other airline diverted. The cruise we were meeting was absolutely terrible but that’s another story. Does anyone think there could be any merit in issuing small claims proceedings? Tuia

eskbanker

Steviek_2 said:

Could anyone help with some advice? We were due to fly from LBA to Corfu on 20.10.23 when the incoming flight skidded off the runway resulting in the airport eventually closing. We were bussed to Mcr [where we live) and eventually landed in Corfu 7 hours late. Coming home the pilot decided to divert to Mcr again causing a further 5.5 hour delay. Both claims have been denied outgoing airport was closed couldn’t operate flight incoming weather. My argument is 1. The airport was closed due to their pilots error [no other airline caused the problem) and again 2. No other airline diverted. The cruise we were meeting was absolutely terrible but that’s another story. Does anyone think there could be any merit in issuing small claims proceedings? Tuia

Personally I wouldn't see either of those arguments being good enough in themselves to go to court with, but have you gone through the Aviation ADR process yet?

https://www.aviationadr.org.uk/how-to-complain-about-a-tui-flight/

bagand96

Steviek_2 said:

Could anyone help with some advice? We were due to fly from LBA to Corfu on 20.10.23 when the incoming flight skidded off the runway resulting in the airport eventually closing. We were bussed to Mcr [where we live) and eventually landed in Corfu 7 hours late. Coming home the pilot decided to divert to Mcr again causing a further 5.5 hour delay. Both claims have been denied outgoing airport was closed couldn’t operate flight incoming weather. My argument is 1. The airport was closed due to their pilots error [no other airline caused the problem) and again 2. No other airline diverted. The cruise we were meeting was absolutely terrible but that’s another story. Does anyone think there could be any merit in issuing small claims proceedings? Tuia

No claim for the outbound.  Leeds Airport closed due to an aircraft accident.  The fact it was a TUI aircraft isn't really relevant and the assumption it was due to pilot error is not proven - it would be very hard to construct a case that TUI are responsible.  It was an extraordinary event (fortunately aircraft accidents are extraordinary!) with the weather as a primary factor.

Inbound I also think will be a challenge.  The problem with the weather at the time was it was stormy and that kind of weather can change in an instant.  Whilst other flights may have operated successfully that doesn't automatically mean every flight on that day will do.  TUI would defend the claim sighting weather and flight safety - which i think would be hard to argue against.

Westin

Steviek_2 said:

Could anyone help with some advice? We were due to fly from LBA to Corfu on 20.10.23 when the incoming flight skidded off the runway resulting in the airport eventually closing. We were bussed to Mcr [where we live) and eventually landed in Corfu 7 hours late. Coming home the pilot decided to divert to Mcr again causing a further 5.5 hour delay. Both claims have been denied outgoing airport was closed couldn’t operate flight incoming weather. My argument is 1. The airport was closed due to their pilots error [no other airline caused the problem) and again 2. No other airline diverted. The cruise we were meeting was absolutely terrible but that’s another story. Does anyone think there could be any merit in issuing small claims proceedings? Tuia

I agree with the comments made by @bagand96 and @eskbanker.  I don’t see a payout here for you either.  Both just ‘one of those things’ when flying.

You make mention of a disappointing cruise holiday from Corfu. If you went on a TUI Marella cruise package and are planning to complain about the cruise, perhaps make mention within your letter of the two flight delays.  They may possible add a token gesture payment for the flight issues as well as any recompense given for the cruise holiday issues.

mainmangjm

Can TUI use the "extraordinary circumstances" exemption when they cancel a flight because the destination airport was closed due to a sandstorm the day BEFORE our flight?

Our TOM608 flight was due to fly LGW to Boa Vista, Cape Verde on 20 Dec 2023, but a sandstorm closed Boa Vista airport on 19 Dec 2023, causing TUI major operational difficulties. On 19 Dec 2023 we were notified that our flight would be delayed by at least 24 hours. Our plane did successfully make the journey on 21 Dec 2023, but we observed that throughout our scheduled day of arrival (20 Dec 2023) the airport at Boa Vista was open and planes were landing.

Could we argue that there was no sandstorm affecting Boa Vista on 20 Dec 2023, so there were no "extraordinary circumstances" DIRECTLY preventing our flight on that day?

Our request for compensation was denied by TUI citing "extraordinary circumstances", but they appear to have no email address to respond to this decision. I was wondering if there is any mileage in taking these circumstances to the ADR?

Thanks

Gerry

bagand96

mainmangjm said:

Can TUI use the "extraordinary circumstances" exemption when they cancel a flight because the destination airport was closed due to a sandstorm the day BEFORE our flight?

Our TOM608 flight was due to fly LGW to Boa Vista, Cape Verde on 20 Dec 2023, but a sandstorm closed Boa Vista airport on 19 Dec 2023, causing TUI major operational difficulties. On 19 Dec 2023 we were notified that our flight would be delayed by at least 24 hours. Our plane did successfully make the journey on 21 Dec 2023, but we observed that throughout our scheduled day of arrival (20 Dec 2023) the airport at Boa Vista was open and planes were landing.

Could we argue that there was no sandstorm affecting Boa Vista on 20 Dec 2023, so there were no "extraordinary circumstances" DIRECTLY preventing our flight on that day?

Our request for compensation was denied by TUI citing "extraordinary circumstances", but they appear to have no email address to respond to this decision. I was wondering if there is any mileage in taking these circumstances to the ADR?

Thanks

Gerry

Cape Verde has been a bit of a nightmare for TUI this winter with a couple of weather events causing chaos (the weekend you speak of, as well as another earlier this year).

It could be that TUI's aircraft was stuck out of position on the 19th, meaning those flights were delayed until the 20th which in turn caused the issue for you. It's a bit of a gray area with "knock on" delays where it wasn't actually your own flight affected. However the onus is on the airline to prove extraordinary circumstances that couldn't be avoided if all reasonable measures had been taken.  You have nothing to lose by going to ADR and TUI would be compelled to provide their evidence as part of that.

Westin

In addition to the reasonable response from bagand96, it could also be possible that the airport at BVC was not fully operational the day after the sandstorm. There could have been issues with airfield equipment that needed checking. Temporarily ‘flow rates’ to air traffic might have been necessary and in place. That might explain why some flights operated, some couldn’t, or some with still delays. These would be classed as ‘extraordinary’ even if the sand storm was the day before.