Flight delay and cancellation compensation, Thomas Cook ONLY

cfpg02

Hi after refusing several times to give me the reasons for the delay to this flight TC told me if I wanted to pursue a claim I should "use more formal channels". So I have referred to my home insurers (Direct line) where I have legal expense cover. They are currently getting a solicitor to look in to the case.

Meanwhile I got a reply from the Greek NEB today. They forwarded TCs response to a request for info on this flight.
It says "Flight TCX2033 RHO-MAN 22.09.2012
...you have asked for further clarification of the delay to confirm if compensation is to be paid in line with ECJ regulation 261/2004.

We can confirm that the aircraft experienced a number two engine starter motor drive shaft shear, whilst checks were being carried out at Palma Airport, prior to its departure to Rhodes. As a result of this, this caused a reactionary delay, as the aircraft could not depart Palma until the fault had been rectified.

Arrangements were made for an engineer to board the aircraft to identify the cause of the fault. It was found during the inspection that a new part was required to fix the starter motor drive. Once the part had arrived and the necessary repairs had taken place, the flight continued its journey to Rhodes.

Recital 14 of the Preamble to Regulation ECJ 261/2004 Of The European Parliament And Of The Council, dated 11 February 2004 states that: - "As under the Montreal Convention, obligations on operating air carriers should be limited or excluded in cases where an event has been caused by extraordinary circumstance which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken. Such circumstances may, in particular, occur in cases of political instability, meteorological conditions incompatible with the operation of the flight concerned, security risks, unexpected flight safety shortcomings and strikes that affect the operation of an operating air carrier".

As there have been no previous reports of the engine starter motor shaft failing on this aircraft, we would regard this as an "unexpected flight safety shortcoming" and therefore sufficient to constitute extraordinary circumstances for the purposes of EC Regulation 261/2004.

As the cause of the delay has been identified as "extraordinary circumstances", despite all reasonable precautions being taken to prevent this situation from occurring, no payment of compensation is considered appropriate in this case.

We can confirm that Kotan Jakub was not a passenger on this flight and is a Managing Director of EUDelay who has written to you on behalf of the passengers in view of their claim. We trust that you will update him on the contents of this letter to confirm why no compensation will be paid in light of the delay."


So TC are claiming that a technical fault is an "unexpected flight safety shortcoming" and won't pay. (By the way, I have no connection with Mr Jakub or EU delay, there must be other folk trying for compensation for the same flight).

What is more interesting is the reply from the Greek NEB which came with the above. I'm not sure how to interpret it. It's not clear to me whether they disagree and think I have a case.
They say this :
"the air carrier denies paying compensation for your case. The flight was delayed due to technical reason (A number two engine starter motor drive shaft shear, whilst checks were being carried out.)

According to the European Court of Justice in joined cases C-402/07, C-432/07 and C-581/10, C-629/10, when the passengers reach their final destination three hours or more after the scheduled arrival time, they may seek flat-rate compensation from the airline, unless the delay is caused by extraordinary circumstances.
You can take legal actions based upon the Judgment of Court of Justice of the European Communities in Joined Cases C-402/07, C-432/07, C-581/10 and C-629/10.

We are at your disposal for any further information."


What do you guys think? Do the cases the Greek NEB mention give examples that would indicate my claim is valid?
Obviously I'll pass this on to Direct Line but I'm interested in what you think and am sharing it all in case others are fighting the for the same flight.
Cheers!

Sparkym_2

Hello

Followed the advice in the FAQ and received a reply. It is mostly the same standard reply that everyone else on the thread has been sent but, as at the time of sending I couldn't find proof I flew with them, they have included the following:

With regard to your request for us to deal with your claim under EU Regulation 261/2004, the legislation does ask that the customer prove that they travelled on the flight. In order to continue with your claim, I therefore require proof of your reservation with our airline before we can proceed. I woul;d therefore ask you to send us one of the below documents to confirm your reservation with our airline:
1. Your confirmation invoice
2. Your ticket booklet
3. Your boarding cards

Unfortunately, should you be unable to confirm to us that you had a reservation with us; we cannot accept your claim or meet with any request for compensation.

LUCKILY I have managed to find my ticket booklet. I plan to send photocopies incase it goes 'missing'.

My question is: what covering letter should I send? Should I resend the letter on the FAQ post? Or just reply to the letter they sent stating that the requested documents are included?

Silly question I know, but just want to do everything correctly, so they don't have a leg to stand on.

Cheers!

Vauban

Sparkym wrote: »

Hello

Followed the advice in the FAQ and received a reply. It is mostly the same standard reply that everyone else on the thread has been sent but, as at the time of sending I couldn't find proof I flew with them, they have included the following:

With regard to your request for us to deal with your claim under EU Regulation 261/2004, the legislation does ask that the customer prove that they travelled on the flight. In order to continue with your claim, I therefore require proof of your reservation with our airline before we can proceed. I woul;d therefore ask you to send us one of the below documents to confirm your reservation with our airline:
1. Your confirmation invoice
2. Your ticket booklet
3. Your boarding cards

Unfortunately, should you be unable to confirm to us that you had a reservation with us; we cannot accept your claim or meet with any request for compensation.

LUCKILY I have managed to find my ticket booklet. I plan to send photocopies incase it goes 'missing'.

My question is: what covering letter should I send? Should I resend the letter on the FAQ post? Or just reply to the letter they sent stating that the requested documents are included?

Silly question I know, but just want to do everything correctly, so they don't have a leg to stand on.

Cheers!

Centipede has just provided a very helpful post to advise you on what to do next. Look it up. But basically write a NBA and - if you get no joy - take them to Court (or engage the services of a no-win no-fee company).

Hulmie

Centipede100 wrote: »

Your choice, either write to the CAA and see what they have to say but you will be waiting 18-20 weeks for a response or start a legal claim or wait for the CAA response and then start a legal claim.

Centipede - In your opinion, do you think i still have a valid claim based on your knowledge?

Saint_Nick

Finally got success from Thomas Cook today. Letter received admitting their responsibility. Claimed for 1600 euros and have been offered a voucher for £1260 for a delay on 19th Oct 2012 from Tenerife to Glasgow. I will write and ask for a cheque but from what I can see we are due nearly £1300 at the rate on 19th Oct. Would have been extremely happy with the £1260 but as they have messed me about for the last 4 months may pursue them for the rest!

Mark2spark

cfpg02 wrote: »

Hi after refusing several times to give me the reasons for the delay to this flight TC told me if I wanted to pursue a claim I should "use more formal channels".

Meanwhile I got a reply from the Greek NEB today. They forwarded TCs response to a request for info on this flight.

We can confirm that the aircraft experienced a number two engine starter motor drive shaft shear, whilst checks were being carried out at Palma Airport, prior to its departure to Rhodes. As a result of this, this caused a reactionary delay, as the aircraft could not depart Palma until the fault had been rectified.


As there have been no previous reports of the engine starter motor shaft failing on this aircraft, we would regard this as an "unexpected flight safety shortcoming" and therefore sufficient to constitute extraordinary circumstances for the purposes of EC Regulation 261/2004.

If I'm reading it correctly, TC are telling the Greek NEB that they consider the tech issue of the preceding flight to yours to be EC, simply because their hasn't been a recorded fault of this kind on this aircraft before.
The ECJ Grand Chamber ruling doesn't support this.
NBA and Court IMO

Mark2spark

Hulmie wrote: »

I have now received a letter back from Thomas Cook basically saying they had done everything possible before the flight took off from Manchester and that there was no smoke or burning smell reported on the logs a month prior to our flight and that all checks on the day of our flight had not highlighted any faults. And therefore with the smoke & burning smell being noticed an hour into the flight they diverted into Gatwick so the fire services and engineers could check the plane and fix the fault. And they copied in an extract from the CAA that says they would consider technical logs in helping to determine whether a particular technical delay would be regarded as extraordinary for the purposes of EC Regulation 261/2004.

It's obviously worth getting the CAA's view on this, but IMO - I'm not a lawyer - this does sound like they would be covered with the EC of unexpected flight safety shortcoming. The knock on effect of crew out of hours won't count as the problems *stem* from a valid EC.
So no court claim yet IMO, wait for the CAA finding.

Tortoiseshell

Has anyone had any luck with Thomas Cook paying out for flight no T305016J, 26 hour delay on 2nd July 2008 from Cancun, Mexico to London Gatwick? Delay was due to technical problems, we were issued with a letter which I no longer have.

I wrote to TC on 6th January 2013 and they replied to say they wouldn't look at it as I only had 28 days to complain. I wrote back to say that [FONT=&quot]EC Regulation 261/2004 overruled their T&CS. They agreed to look into the matter on 28th January 2013, but I'm still waiting on a decision. I've chased them for a response numerous times and they just keep saying they are investigating the matter with the relevant departments in the UK and overseas. How long does it take!!! [/FONT]

Suz83

Hello. My Flight fro anchester to Las Vegas was delayed more than 24hrs back in 2008 (our honeymoon!) After sending a letter to Thomas Cook using the template from Martin Lewis, and after two letters back fro them explaining they are looking into it, ive ended up with a voucher for £1000 to spend with Thomas Cook. Whilst the idea of a holiday for free sounds fantastic, i really wanted the money back. Do you think i could appeal against the outcoe and request that I am copensated in cash and not vouchers?
Thanks

Suzanne.

Altarf

Suz83 wrote: »

Do you think i could appeal against the outcoe and request that I am copensated in cash and not vouchers

Just give them a ring / email / letter, and they will send you a cheque.