Orange not paying topcashback (for anyone)

visidigi

You need to understand how this system works.

It isn't 'Orange' declining the cashback. Its the affiliate scheme running the commission systems for Orange.

When you buy from Top Cash Back they redirect you to the Orange site, using a link that takes you first to the Affiliate scheme and then that redirects you to the Orange site.

You make your purchase and Orange confirm the sale to the Affiliate site, who in turn confirm it to TCB.

When you raise a complaint with TCB this goes no where near orange, instead it goes to the Affiliate Scheme who then will be responsible for investigating the issue and 'sometimes' contacting Orange for an answer.

All these transactions with Orange go through Affiliate Window.

Affiliate Window are showing an approval rate on Orange transactions of 50.24% right now with a validation period of 19 days. This means that of the 100% of applicants for an orange sale only 50% are being approved.

They go through a very vigorous de-duplication process which basically cross references the safe to see if they received a click through via another method - no less than EIGHT different methods of selling an Orange product.

The current status of Orange in the network is that they are medium risk, having oversold the insurance they have to back up their sales, e.g. they owe more to the affiliate network than the insurance will cover them for at this time.

When Orange pay the affiliate network then the affiliate network pay TCB, then TCB pay you.

If you think TCB have a direct connection to Orange you are mistaken.

To be honest looking at the state of the orange approval and credit position i have to say they look like they might need to get themselves in a bit of a better order...

Jon_01

visidigi wrote: »

You need to understand how this system works.


To be honest looking at the state of the orange approval and credit position i have to say they look like they might need to get themselves in a bit of a better order...

When Orange and T merged, Orange 'let go' a massive number of back office staff that had been there years and knew the systems inside out.
I guess that the guys running it now are also running a number of systems (they know nothing about also), and that's the problem...

visidigi

not really, over the last 12 months its stayed a 50ish% apart from a strange peak to 70% a few months back.

I suspect that peak might have squeezed the budgets.

When the budgets get squeezed the eyes look harder for reasons to decline a transaction.

The example earlier of the guy who ordered but then cancelled and still got a payout shows the system is flawed, but then again, sometimes it works in your favour and sometimes it doesn't...

sandrogalli

visidigi wrote: »

You need to understand how this system works.

It isn't 'Orange' declining the cashback. Its the affiliate scheme running the commission systems for Orange.

When you buy from Top Cash Back they redirect you to the Orange site, using a link that takes you first to the Affiliate scheme and then that redirects you to the Orange site.

You make your purchase and Orange confirm the sale to the Affiliate site, who in turn confirm it to TCB.

When you raise a complaint with TCB this goes no where near orange, instead it goes to the Affiliate Scheme who then will be responsible for investigating the issue and 'sometimes' contacting Orange for an answer.

All these transactions with Orange go through Affiliate Window.

Affiliate Window are showing an approval rate on Orange transactions of 50.24% right now with a validation period of 19 days. This means that of the 100% of applicants for an orange sale only 50% are being approved.

They go through a very vigorous de-duplication process which basically cross references the safe to see if they received a click through via another method - no less than EIGHT different methods of selling an Orange product.

The current status of Orange in the network is that they are medium risk, having oversold the insurance they have to back up their sales, e.g. they owe more to the affiliate network than the insurance will cover them for at this time.

When Orange pay the affiliate network then the affiliate network pay TCB, then TCB pay you.

If you think TCB have a direct connection to Orange you are mistaken.

To be honest looking at the state of the orange approval and credit position i have to say they look like they might need to get themselves in a bit of a better order...

Very informative, do you work in the industry or just a detective?

It's clearly a case of pass the buck here as there are three companies, (TCB, Orange, and Affiliate window, of whom only TCB have any communication or regard for the customer. The problem is TCB seem to be operating a 'the retailers decision is final' policy, rather than putting any pressure on the company declining valid cashback claims. For a tracked transaction to track, then be cancelled after a few weeks on the grounds of a contract being cancelled (erroneously), and for this to happen on what seems to be numerous occasions really puts the system into disrepute. In these cases, the oppurtunity for the customer to cancel their order if the cashback didn't track was not there, and they have been instead locked into uncompetitive and lengthy contracts, often losing out on £100 or more.

It may be true that 50% of cashbacks are still claimed successfully, but there should be an avenue for customers with genuine transactions to escalate a claim once cashback is declined. visidigi's post has been very enlightening, but shows that more transparency in the system is required, because as the comments in this thread clearly show, the two major cashback retailers are struggling to process valid claims, and to keep genuine customers happy.

mije1983

sandrogalli wrote: »

....locked into uncompetitive and lengthy contracts....

While I agree with what you have said, it is why you should never base a purchase on possible cashback. If the contract is uncompetitive in the first place, steer clear if you wouldn't be able to afford it without cashback.

sandrogalli

I don't. When we started using cashback websites a couple of years ago, the understanding was that the technology/systems in place would sometimes fail to track an order and this was acceptable, which is why we treated cashback as a pleasant, but not guaranteed bonus.

For the reasons outlined before, I believe this case to be different.Its because of the scale of the problem that I think its important we speak up.

mobilejunkie

TopCashBack_Company_Representative wrote: »

Hi everyone,

I thought I would post here to answer some of the Orange queries for you.

Firstly, whilst there have been a number of declined Orange transactions, the vast majority have been successfully paid out, within 3 months in most cases.

It is the up to the merchant to decline transactions, and where we try and fight the member’s corner as much as possible, the merchant’s decision is final.

I don’t believe that it is the case that merchants are intentionally abusing the cashback system in order to attract customers with no intention of paying. Where we do have a large number of complaints relating to a merchant’s activity, I can assure you that we fully investigate it and would take action if this were the case.

For anyone wanting specific feedback on a claim, please email me at [EMAIL="mse@topcashback.co.uk"]mse@topcashback.co.uk[/EMAIL] and I will do my best to investigate further.

Best wishes,

John

Utter garbage.

There are many merchants who get ZERO positive feedback because they don't pay. TCB sits on enquiries for months - sometimes years - and doesn't do anything. Worse - you continue to promote (heavilly and regularly) those very same merchants. No doubt because YOU get an income from them for so doing whilst your members fail to get cashback for fulfilling their part of the contract.

If you spent a fraction of what it costs to advertise on tv on policing the merchants you'd have some decency and integrity - but you don't and you no longer have any. Politicians use words rather than deeds; you are doing no different.

You no longer care about your customers; appearing on here is merely another form of marketing.

Money_Grabber13579

sandrogalli wrote: »

I don't. When we started using cashback websites a couple of years ago, the understanding was that the technology/systems in place would sometimes fail to track an order and this was acceptable, which is why we treated cashback as a pleasant, but not guaranteed bonus.

For the reasons outlined before, I believe this case to be different.Its because of the scale of the problem that I think its important we speak up.

Precisely. I always knew that there was a risk that a transaction wouldn't track and there would be no record of it logged anywhere. However, when the transaction does track, but TCB, the affiliate or Orange are declining to pay in hundreds, perhaps thousands, of cases, for reasons that they know are simply not true, then there is a problem. It is this problem which needs to be highlighted, because many consumers are getting ripped off, all so that the big companies can make even bigger profits.

Money_Grabber13579

mobilejunkie wrote: »

Utter garbage.

There are many merchants who get ZERO positive feedback because they don't pay. TCB sits on enquiries for months - sometimes years - and doesn't do anything. Worse - you continue to promote (heavilly and regularly) those very same merchants. No doubt because YOU get an income from them for so doing whilst your members fail to get cashback for fulfilling their part of the contract.

If you spent a fraction of what it costs to advertise on tv on policing the merchants you'd have some decency and integrity - but you don't and you no longer have any. Politicians use words rather than deeds; you are doing no different.

You no longer care about your customers; appearing on here is merely another form of marketing.

This pretty much sums up my view of TCB as well. The excuses given above are tantamount to sticking their heads in the sand and hoping that people will stop complaining. All I can say it, they haven't heard the end of it, from me anyway. A number of claims through the small claims court would soon sort them out, as I believe there are good legal grounds for taking this route.

They might try and cover themselves by saying that there is no guarantee of cashback being paid, however, when all the T&Cs are met, I don't believe they can rely on this.

For the record, the amount of help I've received so far from top cashback amounts to:

"Your contract has been cancelled, because someone says so, therefore it must have been, don't care you're still paying for it, we aren't paying you any cashback la la la la la la la la la la."

mobilejunkie

Just like Quidco, they used to be the opposite. There's a disease in this country; once an organisation has reached a certain point in its development they believe customer service is the same as lip service and the only thing which matters is attracting NEW customers. It seems they cease to understand that it COSTS a LOT more to attract a new customer than keep an existing one - but it doesn't matter to them because (especially with a growing population) there are plenty of fish in the sea.

It's a great shame, but it all leaves a VERY nasty taste from what used to be the best restaurant in town.

I may be investigating the Financial Ombudsman Service to see if TCB comes under their realm (someone else indicated they do, but I'd need to check when I have time). People should NOT simply accept the utterly UNacceptable "it's never guaranteed" and "it's the merchant's decision" nonsense.

Being robbed is being robbed - and the police force in this case are taking bribes to ignore the crime.