Universal Credit changes...CSA?

labyrinth84

Hi,

I have been reading up on the new Universal Credit and have not yet seen anything about its affects on CSA, any knowledge anyone could share would be greatly appreciated!

Basically, I live with my partner who has 2 children from a previous relationship. My partner moved in with me and my child last year.

I earn more than my partner (though, I am still on low income) and have relied on Tax Credits to top up my earnings to make ends meet.
His ex partner applied to the CSA for child maintenance, even though I was actually paying her maintenance out of my wages (along with approx £90 a fortnight for fuel to collect the children every other weekend). The CSA has calculated my child tax credits to work out the sum to be paid via them.

I am worried that this Universal Credit will enable CSA to take even more money from our already struggling household. We are even contemplating living separately. His children are not struggling as his ex gets a substantial sum in state-hand outs, yet my child has nothing as we struggle to earn more. The comparison in lifestyles our children have is proof of this...his children have an annual abroad holiday, get driven round in a lovely car and live in a beautiful house within a lovely housing estate. My child is lucky if she gets an annual trip to Chester Zoo, we can't afford to run a car and we have to live on a run down estate.

I do not begrudge his children anything. No matter how skint we are, I always ensure there is money for fuel to collect them from the other side of the country (£90) and they are fed well whilst here, and bought clothes when needed.

I think the system is really unfair. Take from a child whose mother is working to support them, to give to a household who go without nothing and live off the state. I really hope the Universal Credit does not leave us struggling even more

Any help on this would be appreciated. Like mentioned, I am considering living separately from my partner to ensure the money I earn for my child is protected.

Many thanks (hope no one fell asleep during my essay!)

wayne0

labyrinth84 wrote: »

Hi,

I have been reading up on the new Universal Credit and have not yet seen anything about its affects on CSA, any knowledge anyone could share would be greatly appreciated!

Basically, I live with my partner who has 2 children from a previous relationship. My partner moved in with me and my child last year.

I earn more than my partner (though, I am still on low income) and have relied on Tax Credits to top up my earnings to make ends meet.
His ex partner applied to the CSA for child maintenance, even though I was actually paying her maintenance out of my wages (along with approx £90 a fortnight for fuel to collect the children every other weekend). The CSA has calculated my child tax credits to work out the sum to be paid via them.

I am worried that this Universal Credit will enable CSA to take even more money from our already struggling household. We are even contemplating living separately. His children are not struggling as his ex gets a substantial sum in state-hand outs, yet my child has nothing as we struggle to earn more. The comparison in lifestyles our children have is proof of this...his children have an annual abroad holiday, get driven round in a lovely car and live in a beautiful house within a lovely housing estate. My child is lucky if she gets an annual trip to Chester Zoo, we can't afford to run a car and we have to live on a run down estate.

I do not begrudge his children anything. No matter how skint we are, I always ensure there is money for fuel to collect them from the other side of the country (£90) and they are fed well whilst here, and bought clothes when needed.

I think the system is really unfair. Take from a child whose mother is working to support them, to give to a household who go without nothing and live off the state. I really hope the Universal Credit does not leave us struggling even more

Any help on this would be appreciated. Like mentioned, I am considering living separately from my partner to ensure the money I earn for my child is protected.

Many thanks (hope no one fell asleep during my essay!)

from reading, i believe if you get universal credits, it will be deemed the same as JSA/Income support ETC, so the flat rate (of what will be £10 on gross income scheme (cs3)) will be payable...

either that, or only wages of NRP will be counted (i will personally be fine with either way....)

in practice the rules have not been published yet... so who knows....

knowing the csa it will just result in housing benefit being taken into account too etc...

many NRP and their partners have decided to live apart for the reason of CSA...

the fuel costs... can you ask your partners ex to share the journeys?
(harder said than done... i know... my ex out right refuses... if i want to see my son, its down to me).

but ensure you put a variation in to CSA for travel costs... it wont mean much but...

also, bear in mind:

on cs2 * the csa can only take NRP income from wages into account and CTC
WTC can only be included if he earns more than you,
50% of WTC is counted if its the same
and none if you are the higher earner...

(note wages are tricky to work out, but includes interest on banks from 65k and above which i assume you dont have etc but includes bonuses etc)

also ensure that the csa know you have children in your household, this will reduce your income figure by 15% for 1 child, 20% for 2 children and 25% for 3 or more children.

CS1 is trickier, but takes into account your living expenses, so i assume this is not what you are on... plus its for cases before 2003.

the new gross income csa system will take 12% of gross income (before tax/nic's) but anyones guess is as good as anyone elses as to when people will be transfered...

if we are transfered onto UC before the new CSA system, i would hope that it is treated as income support... since that is what universal credits is! (it replaces JSA/ESA/income support/housing benefit/child tax credit/wtc.)

but hope is different to fact...

keep checking around... i put a freedom of information request in to CSA and got no reply from it about this... im actually about to send them a reminder that the 20 day time limit expired

labyrinth84

Thank you

From what I gathered, the system will replace a number of the existing benefits/credits, but is also set in place to make it more beneficial to work.

We both work, and usually receive approx £60p/w tax credits, and the usual £80 p/m child benefit and a tiny bit towards our rent. Usually on top of earnings, CSA calculate Tax Credit on top. Now all credits are going to combined, I presume all help will be calculated, and not only deductable for CSA but pushes the % of deductions up...so for the extra £5 a week help with the UCredit, we could be losing so much more.

Its all very confusing!

labyrinth84

wayne0 wrote: »

from reading, i believe if you get universal credits, it will be deemed the same as JSA/Income support ETC, so the flat rate (of what will be £10 on gross income scheme (cs3)) will be payable...

either that, or only wages of NRP will be counted (i will personally be fine with either way....)

in practice the rules have not been published yet... so who knows....

knowing the csa it will just result in housing benefit being taken into account too etc...

many NRP and their partners have decided to live apart for the reason of CSA...

the fuel costs... can you ask your partners ex to share the journeys?
(harder said than done... i know... my ex out right refuses... if i want to see my son, its down to me).

but ensure you put a variation in to CSA for travel costs... it wont mean much but...

also, bear in mind:

on cs2 * the csa can only take NRP income from wages into account and CTC
WTC can only be included if he earns more than you,
50% of WTC is counted if its the same
and none if you are the higher earner...

(note wages are tricky to work out, but includes interest on banks from 65k and above which i assume you dont have etc but includes bonuses etc)

also ensure that the csa know you have children in your household, this will reduce your income figure by 15% for 1 child, 20% for 2 children and 25% for 3 or more children.

CS1 is trickier, but takes into account your living expenses, so i assume this is not what you are on... plus its for cases before 2003.

the new gross income csa system will take 12% of gross income (before tax/nic's) but anyones guess is as good as anyone elses as to when people will be transfered...

if we are transfered onto UC before the new CSA system, i would hope that it is treated as income support... since that is what universal credits is! (it replaces JSA/ESA/income support/housing benefit/child tax credit/wtc.)

but hope is different to fact...

keep checking around... i put a freedom of information request in to CSA and got no reply from it about this... im actually about to send them a reminder that the 20 day time limit expired

Haha yes correct, the ex will do whatever she can to stand in the way of access so journey share/ fuel costs is definitely out of the question!

We have already told them about the contact costs, but they said it doesn't make much of a difference now they deduct a percentage for nights stayed with NRP.

I will take your advice and keep looking for information. If in the end I have to live separate from my partner to provide properly for my child, I will.

Your help has been much appreciated, thank you

wayne0

well, the gross income system will reduce the income reduction for children living with the nrp.

the 12% from gross pay will usually equate to more than 15% of net pay...

but the regulations currently state that the income can only use wages and self employed wages etc... (but allows for variations for assets etc like the current system)

kevin137

I cannot se how Housing benefit could be included, as this would be a local benefit, not a national benefit... So issued in a very different way by different standards.

The long and short of it is that with the changes coming, they are going to make it harder for lazy no good useless long standing benefit scroungers worse off... Unfortunately that does mean that genuine people making claims are likely to suffer as well... It also means that the EX will probably be worse off, so more bitter and after more money...! So expect a reassessment request shortly after the changes come in...!!!

clearingout

you will do well to not dwell on differences in lifestyle - there are so many variables in place that can impact on a family's lifestyle that you simply can't know what makes her life seem 'better' than yours. Your partner is making a contribution towards his children's needs - more than many NRPs do - and you should be proud of that. Unfortunately, the tax credit thing is a sting in the tail - but in much the same way, so is the fact that my maintenance (should I ever receive any) can be reduced due to children in my ex's household that he has no biological responsibility for. One way or another, things seem to even themselves out.

Living separately whilst in a partnership has it's own problems; not least the potential to be found guilty of committing benefit/tax credit fraud and getting a criminal record.

Don't dwell on what others have as it will send you round the bend. Focus on your life and how to improve it and thus your own children's lifestyle for the better.

labyrinth84

clearingout wrote: »

you will do well to not dwell on differences in lifestyle - there are so many variables in place that can impact on a family's lifestyle that you simply can't know what makes her life seem 'better' than yours. Your partner is making a contribution towards his children's needs - more than many NRPs do - and you should be proud of that. Unfortunately, the tax credit thing is a sting in the tail - but in much the same way, so is the fact that my maintenance (should I ever receive any) can be reduced due to children in my ex's household that he has no biological responsibility for. One way or another, things seem to even themselves out.

Living separately whilst in a partnership has it's own problems; not least the potential to be found guilty of committing benefit/tax credit fraud and getting a criminal record.

Don't dwell on what others have as it will send you round the bend. Focus on your life and how to improve it and thus your own children's lifestyle for the better.

Hi Clearingout,

I understand what you are saying about not comparing lifestyles, but it is very difficult. We work hard, yet struggle to pay bills.

We dont begrudge the children anything. We pay massive fuel costs to see their lovely faces, and we get them the things they need. If we don't buy them clothes, we get threatened with no access etc. We can't do everything, especially when my child is going without to do so.

If we lived separately, it wouldn't be a false claim. We would live separately. I agree that NRP should contribute to children, and if he lived alone this would be worked out fairly and not at the expense of my child.

I do feel bitter that working 40hours a week doesnt buy me the lifestyle and luxuries that the unemployed parent shows off about. Its hard not too x

kevin137

labyrinth84 wrote: »

I do feel bitter that working 40hours a week doesnt buy me the lifestyle and luxuries that the unemployed parent shows off about. Its hard not too x

That is normal for any person though, and hopefully will change with this Government cutting back so much...! Not always a good thing they do, as it does make the genuine suffer as well, but they are less likely to be unemployed longterm so we will see...

labyrinth84

kevin137 wrote: »

That is normal for any person though, and hopefully will change with this Government cutting back so much...! Not always a good thing they do, as it does make the genuine suffer as well, but they are less likely to be unemployed longterm so we will see...

I sincerely hope so! Even when I was a single parent, I worked. At one point a full-time job and a weekend nightclub job! I suppose if the resident parent worked too, I'd feel less bitter and angry. I'm sure it is not only parents/partners paying through CSA that are bitter with the way unemployed parents get a better deal than the honest workers amongst us all.

I suppose they are the clever ones! Money for nothing. But you can't buy or claim pride

clearingout

labyrinth84 wrote: »

Hi Clearingout,

I understand what you are saying about not comparing lifestyles, but it is very difficult. We work hard, yet struggle to pay bills.

We dont begrudge the children anything. We pay massive fuel costs to see their lovely faces, and we get them the things they need. If we don't buy them clothes, we get threatened with no access etc. We can't do everything, especially when my child is going without to do so.

If we lived separately, it wouldn't be a false claim. We would live separately. I agree that NRP should contribute to children, and if he lived alone this would be worked out fairly and not at the expense of my child.

I do feel bitter that working 40hours a week doesnt buy me the lifestyle and luxuries that the unemployed parent shows off about. Its hard not too x

Plenty of people work hard and struggle to pay the bills. Few people who are unemployed for any length of time have luxuries or 'lifestyle'. Much depends on how you define 'luxuries' and 'lifestyle', I guess. If she can afford holidays, cars and a social life, the chance are there is support from her family in some way. I have three children and survived on benefits for a couple of years. I maintained a car, yes. I did do holidays during that time, but my mum paid for them. She also paid for essential work to be done on my house. To the outside world, I am sure it looked like 'single mum getting a small fortune' but you have no idea of the juggling I did, the personal stuff I sold on ebay, the jewellery that went to Hatton Garden Metals etc. etc. to pay for it all. You also have no idea of the things that need doing in the house that I am still trying to catch up with - for 3 years now I have been unblocking my drains by hand, for example, (yuk!) and they definately need doing professionally as they keep blocking...but I plug away at it and I keep on managing...!

If she is threatening no access, that can be dealt with by the courts. Few PWC who are used to the NRP having regular access actually like it when they suddenly can't go out - I would hazard a guess, access would start again pretty quickly! And if it didn't, the courts can help. You don't need a solicitor - Families Need Fathers and Wikivorce.com can both help with self-repping in court.

Don't leave a good relationship for the sake of an ex who has a life you can do nothing about. Think of you as well as your child. Support and love and kindness are important in life.