Cons Increase Deficit & National Debt Targets Missed

StevieJ

This govt are pretty incompetent even in politicking, they lay a benefit trap for Labour, that lasted about 5 minutes when Labour pointed out the effects on workers. Labour lay a trap for them 50% tax and they are still wriggling on the hook.

grizzly1911

BertieUK wrote: »

As Dorries correctly observes – and no matter how many ludicrous photo shoots Cameron arranges in order to be caught shopping at the fish counter of his local supermarket for sea bass, just like all the ordinary folk do – Cameron and Osborne (and, though she didn't mention him, Clegg) simply have no idea how badly this recession is treating those struggling middle class families who constitute their core vote

.

Can ordinary folk afford to shop at the wet fish counter?

Didn't know they sold frozen breaded cod fillets and fish fingers.

grizzly1911

Moby wrote: »

Instead of following Obama's lead....what Osborne has done is depress everyone into doom and gloom and a fear that we are one step away from being like Greece. A great way to boost public confidence....not! He is also discriminating against people who claim any sort of benefit, or those of us who provide public services etc. As always the ones who suffer most are those least able to cope. The increasing social division will inevitably lead to an increase in crime and an erosion of quality public services.....same old tories!

The trouble is we are only two steps away from being Greece it's just that the USA and UK "bullsh** and bluster better, whilst retaining their own currencies to devalue. They lean on the economic doctrine of tell it enough times and the majority will believe you most of the time.

Thrugelmir

Moby wrote: »

Instead of following Obama's lead....

Obama has achieved little more than saved face. Given raising income tax was one of his election pledges. Even then far short of his objective.

The USA isn't setting a lead for anyone at the current time. I'm glad that there providing a welcome distraction in fact.

GeorgeHowell

I think the lefties need to be clear on what grounds they want to slam the government. Is it missing for deficit reduction targets due to not cutting back far enough, or is it for cuting back too far and causing all this alleged hardship ?

I suspect that the answer comes from the Ed Balls Book of Cloud Cuckoo Land Remedies, that if HMG had just gone to China and borrowed a few more £billions that they could neither afford to pay back nor service the interest, and created a few hundred thousand more non-jobs in the public sector, plunge a few more hundred millions into indiscriminate benefits for the "vulnerable", started one or two grandiose computerisation schemes that would never work, subsidised a few dozen wind farms, expanded some fifth rate 'universities' awarding meaningless & useless degrees, and some hospitals that remain half closed because there are not enough qualified people to staff them, then magically we would already be in clear positive growth enabling us to reduce the deficit and the debt, and live happily ever after.

Then our alarm clocks went off and we all woke up.

chewmylegoff

BertieUK wrote: »

You seem about as peeved off with present politicians as I am, that was why I was trying to find a fairer way of deciding, with no majority in an election, who should run our country.

It would appear that we cannot trust those of any of the top parties anymore, then who is left to govern that we can trust?

What would be your suggestion to the present problems? and I am not trying to be in any way sarcastic. OK

There is no real solution, not one that our domestic politicians can engineer anyway.

We all know that the solution is growth, but politicians cannot create growth out of thin air. We are part of a complex, globalised economy, where all of the players are independent upon one another. Call me Dave and gormless Ed want you to believe that, despite there only really being a cigarette paper between them in policy terms, that they are radically different from each other, and each of them would have you believe that they have the magical solution which will cure all ills.

Labour don't have any policies which would have avoided the recession we have just exited and the Tories didn't cause it. Everyone left wing wants to believe that the evil Tories are screwing poor people, but the reality is that the poor would be having just as horrid a time under a Labour government. All that would be different is that DecentLivingWage would be telling us how great things were, but the man on the street wouldn't notice it.

Basically all we can do is vote for a succession of idiots who pretend they are in control and wait for the global economy to recover.

chewmylegoff

grizzly1911 wrote: »

Liam Byrne is now using this statistical quote:-

Those are the people this government wants to cover the cost of their failure whilst 8,000 millionaires receive a tax cut worth an average of £107,500.

Haven't a clue where the figure is being derived from.

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/01/ids-trouble-over-his-strivers%E2%80%99-tax-%E2%80%93-and-he-knows-it

Yes, this is what they are now saying. It's probably true - there are 8,000 or so people who declare an income of over £1 million. However, that's slightly different to every millionaire in the country (600,000 of us allegedly) getting a tax cut of £40,000:

From Ed Milliband's conference speech (I think), it's certainly from a speech given by Milliband. Don't try telling me that this is an honest mistake and that Ed doesn't understand what a millionaire is:

"Next April, David Cameron will be writing a cheque for £40,000 to each and every millionaire in Britain.  And here’s the worst part. David Cameron isn’t just writing the cheques. He is receiving one. He’s going to be getting the millionaires’ tax cut."

Generali

chewmylegoff wrote: »

Yes, this is what they are now saying. It's probably true - there are 8,000 or so people who declare an income of over £1 million. However, that's slightly different to every millionaire in the country (600,000 of us allegedly) getting a tax cut of £40,000:

From Ed Milliband's conference speech (I think), it's certainly from a speech given by Milliband. Don't try telling me that this is an honest mistake and that Ed doesn't understand what a millionaire is:

"Next April, David Cameron will be writing a cheque for £40,000 to each and every millionaire in Britain.  And here’s the worst part. David Cameron isn’t just writing the cheques. He is receiving one. He’s going to be getting the millionaires’ tax cut."

From what I see of British politics the best thing that can happen is a series of Labour victories.

Bankrupting the country seems to be the only way for people to see that they can't afford welfarism.

BertieUK

chewmylegoff wrote: »

There is no real solution, not one that our domestic politicians can engineer anyway.

We all know that the solution is growth, but politicians cannot create growth out of thin air. We are part of a complex, globalised economy, where all of the players are independent upon one another. Call me Dave and gormless Ed want you to believe that, despite there only really being a cigarette paper between them in policy terms, that they are radically different from each other, and each of them would have you believe that they have the magical solution which will cure all ills.

Labour don't have any policies which would have avoided the recession we have just exited and the Tories didn't cause it. Everyone left wing wants to believe that the evil Tories are screwing poor people, but the reality is that the poor would be having just as horrid a time under a Labour government. All that would be different is that DecentLivingWage would be telling us how great things were, but the man on the street wouldn't notice it.

Basically all we can do is vote for a succession of idiots who pretend they are in control and wait for the global economy to recover.

On this Forum we read many balanced views as to what went wrong, and equally as many of how to get back on some kind of track. My view is that it was the wrong policies in politics that caused it all to happen, what I would like to see is firstly the facts described in simple terms to the average person in the street in a language that they understand of what has been said, and discussed on this Forum.

Break down the General Public into age groups and you will see that a very large percentage of the electorate will consist of OAP's who, many like me, are not altogether familiar with the politics of today as what many on here are, so many just vote for a person who looks the part for the job, many of the names on the Ballot Paper we have never heard of before Voting Day, we used to in the past have candidates calling at your doors and explaining why you should vote for them. Now all you get is a piece of paper in the letterbox which gets mixed up with all the other rubbish that is there. Nobody has knocked on my door for years now.

Then at the next election you will be getting a high percentage of disgruntled University Students at the polls who have memories of their first vote that ended in a broken promise.

Ok you may say what a load of rubbish this guys talking but I tell you until politicans come down to the level of the public, and talk to us at our level, instead of trying to impress us with these fancy long words that you use, which we have to Google to find out there meanings, are just hot air.

Thats my rant for the day over. Enjoy yours.

Moby

I think the lefties need to be clear on what grounds they want to slam the
government. Is it missing for deficit reduction targets due to not cutting back
far enough, or is it for cuting back too far and causing all this alleged
hardship ?

Incoherent

I suspect that the answer comes from the Ed Balls Book of Cloud Cuckoo Land
Remedies, that if HMG had just gone to China and borrowed a few more
£billions that they could neither afford to pay back nor service the interest,
and created a few hundred thousand more non-jobs in the public sector, plunge a
few more hundred millions into indiscriminate benefits for the "vulnerable",
started one or two grandiose computerisation schemes that would never work,
subsidised a few dozen wind farms, expanded some fifth rate 'universities'
awarding meaningless & useless degrees, and some hospitals that remain half
closed because there are not enough qualified people to staff them, then
magically we would already be in clear positive growth enabling us to reduce the
deficit and the debt, and live happily ever after.

Had your Daily Mail fix already George.....nurse will be along soon.

Then our alarm clocks went off and we all woke up

.
So in your 'reality' things are now working are they? Come on ....who is really dreaming here. I've said time and time again the Govmts job is to lead and to inspire confidence in people. Blabbing on about 'magic money trees' etc is both hypocritical and misguided. Remember we live in a capitalist world in which we were told that we could live on credit and borrowing by our leaders/bankers.............. who lets say are generally right of centre....so don't start with all that 'live within your means' bollox. I thought the tory view was always you have to speculate to accumulate?;)
If you exclude people from society the way this Govmt is doing you create discord. So many right wingers on here go on about the average person being too stupid to understand what's going on. I would never be so judgemental...... but hey ho this is the internet and anything goes.....the question therefore has to be asked why are people ignorant? does it have anything to do with our society and the level of opportunity there is in it. The sad fact is the kids of 'middle class privileged parents tend to do better than the 'rest'...always exceptions.... but generally it is the case imo. There is no equality of opportunity in this country at this time. Attack people for being 'lefties' whatever but there is a reason why people like me feel the way we do.
I came south from Wales and did ok for myself but I have never forgotten my background and the consequences of a cold callous uncaring govmt on my family of steelworkers and miners. I accept that 'left of centre' people may be sometimes accurately painted as naive, deluded about market place economics etc but I'll say two things to that...at least we care about the 'whole' and as I keep banging on.......surely we live in a free market capitalist world....so surely credit, debt, boom, bust etc are totally in keeping with that worlda and speculators do tend to be tory don't they?