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Isolation from Europe wouldn't be splendid for the UK?
Comments
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The_White_Horse wrote: »so, no answer then. as I expected.
He doesn't answer racists and bigots.
Luckily for him, it's everyone that questions him
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Why is it that anyone who questions whether uncontrolled immigration is a good thing, is labelled racist?Graham_Devon wrote: »He doesn't answer racists and bigots.
Luckily for him, it's everyone that questions him0 -
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Cloud cuckoo land.
Yes, I can see that if the UK initiates negotiations on this model, something could be very easily negotiated along these lines. But it would be a fig leaf which would actually be a way to slide us out through the door without it slamming.
Think of the break up of the former USSR. It was replaced by the Commonwealth of Independent States. Remember that? Is it at all a meaningful entity today?
What would actually happen could probably be along the lines that the others take the opportunity of a UK renegotiation to 'consolidate' existing foundational treaties, leaving the UK on the legacy treaties, which the others will slowly drop out of. Leaving the UK as the sole member of the EU.
I am of the opinion we will have eased ourselves out of the EU with the willing cooperation of the rest (even if it is on the lines I suggest above) by 2020. people will rejoice that 'we will no longer be told what to do by Brussels'. In strict fact they will probably be correct - but in reality we will have to choose of our own free will to comply with a substantial amount of EU legislation without ever having a say on the content.
The idea that we could refocus on the Commonwealth is fanciful. Free movement of people and labour within the Commonwealth anyone?
No doubt it would lead to effective withdrawal over time, particularly if more and more of them join the USE. But I was answering the point previously made that no change can happen because once you join a club you have to abide by its rules lock, stock and barrel. I would like to see us out altogether but accept that may have to come in stages.
I don't agree about the Commonwealth being a red hering. Free movement of labour is not a prerequisite for free trade agreements or cooperative arrangements and that's we need or should be looking for.No-one would remember the Good Samaritan if he'd only had good intentions. He had money as well.
The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.
Margaret Thatcher0 -
its what the left does. they scream racist, homophobe or whatever they feel like to distract from the fact that they are wrong.
why is it racist to not want a load of thieves and beggars coming over here? the answer is, it isn't. but the lefty has no capacity for sense.
the lefty likes to think we all live in a utopian world where everything is free of charge and everyone should have access to everything, and all people like to help everyone else and is more than willing to give up their salary to help the underprivileged (or lazy). the lefty also thinks that those who work hard and try and do well for their family should pay even more in real terms from their salary to help those who can't be bothered.
the lefty does not appreciate human nature at all.
the lefty does not appreciate that when I go to work, it is to support my family - not a bunch of bulgarian gangsters - so they can live in a better house than I do.
of course, most people don't mind the concept of pooling resources to help themselves ie the nhs (as one day you may need it), the police, roads, rubbish collection, street lights etc. however, most do not want their hard earned money taken from them to help lazy ne'er do wells have music lessons after school - when they can barely afford to pay for their own children to have music lessons.
you can never have a sensible debate with a lefty, as they will always start with the racist labels. look at hamish here. he is clearly wrong, clearly has no answer but can't admit that a load of bulgarian and romanian beggars, thieves and gangsters are of no use to us - so calls people racists instead.
the irony of it all, is that most lefties support some of the most brutal and racist regimes possible such as say, hammas for example. Look at someone like Roger Waters from Pink Floyd as a prime example.0 -
If and when it happens, it will I suspect, be quick quiet and apparently painless. Because not much will change. In particular we will almost certainly choose to do exactly what Brussels instructs in terms of labour law and human rights rather than end up on the wrong side of tariff barriers. But at least we will be gloriously independent, ruling the waves in our minds, even if we have even less say in the laws we actually have to follow.GeorgeHowell wrote: »No doubt it would lead to effective withdrawal over time, particularly if more and more of them join the USE. But I was answering the point previously made that no change can happen because once you join a club you have to abide by its rules lock, stock and barrel. I would like to see us out altogether but accept that may have to come in stages.You might as well ask the Wizard of Oz to give you a big number as pay a Credit Referencing Agency for a so-called 'credit-score'0 -
If and when it happens, it will I suspect, be quick quiet and apparently painless. Because not much will change. In particular we will almost certainly choose to do exactly what Brussels instructs in terms of labour law and human rights rather than end up on the wrong side of tariff barriers. But at least we will be gloriously independent, ruling the waves in our minds, even if we have even less say in the laws we actually have to follow.
I don't think so. The perversion of human rights by Europe is a really big deal and no government is going to get away with pretending that we have repatriated powers and yet letting that carry on as is.
The same applies to aspects of EU interference that have no direct bearing on a level playing field for free trade. If the EU tries to insist that we have to retain all that for a free trade agreement -- albeit within our own allegedly independent legislation -- then the negotiations for a new deal will have failed, and it may have to be a straight in/out decision.
It will all depend on what question/s are put in the almost inevitable referendum, when that happens, what conditions surround it, what happens before and after it, and what sequence of events. But if any political party tries to dupe the electorate that things are going to be different, but they stay the same as you suggest then that party is going to get electorally punished to an almost unprecedented degree in my view.No-one would remember the Good Samaritan if he'd only had good intentions. He had money as well.
The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.
Margaret Thatcher0 -
There is nothing perverted about human rights. I value mine.GeorgeHowell wrote: »I don't think so. The perversion of human rights by Europe is a really big deal and no government is going to get away with pretending that we have repatriated powers and yet letting that carry on as is.You might as well ask the Wizard of Oz to give you a big number as pay a Credit Referencing Agency for a so-called 'credit-score'0 -
Some of the rulings (or interpretation) go beyond sense. Probably down to the statutes being so vague.
I completely agree with you, but the European Court of Human Rights is completely seperate from the EU, although members of the EU sign up to abide by its principles and rulings.
Even outside the EU, we could not hope to trade with the EU, without the imposition of punitive tariffs, unless we continued to abide by these principles and rulings.
We are not the only country that finds some of the findings of the ECHR perverse. Campaigning against these is, however, a completely different issue to membership of the EU. The Daily Mail tries to lump the two issues together to spare their readership from having to think too hard/at all."When the people fear the government there is tyranny, when the government fears the people there is liberty." - Thomas Jefferson0
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