blue badges & parking tickets.

Nine_Lives

If you check out google maps then i parked on the right hand side of the road in the final 'bay'

In fact, it turns out i parked directly next to this very sign:


http://s151.photobucket.com/albums/s151/Kev_83/?action=view&current=parking01.jpg

Though i'm sure that when i looked after i got the ticket there was a sign saying permit holders only - because when i looked around, some cars had permits in the windscreen. I don't know how up to date google maps is. I'd have to go back & check the area again.


This is the rear of the ticket:


http://s151.photobucket.com/albums/s151/Kev_83/?action=view&current=TICKET002.jpg

spacey2012

Nine_Lives wrote: »

I suspect that you suspect it says residents only - to which you'll likely then say "can't you read the sign"

Yes, it is a residents/permit holders only sign.

How do you know what I am likely to say, putting words in peoples mouths wont win you any arguments.
For what it matters the signs have to be compliant, one mistake and it's game over, hence why I asked to see it.

Anyway the PCN, is this the standard of the printing or have you altered it or has it got wet
If it is really printed this badly, the location is unintelligible and it is a very good reason for appeal.
Expect the council appeal to be rejected, they have nothing to lose, but i can not see the adjudicator agreeing that that meets the requirement of a served notice.
However, you may have to be coy, if you wait for the notice to owner, then you have another document to reply to claiming you can not read the first. Then you can make a formal appeal.

Nine_Lives

spacey2012 wrote: »

How do you know what I am likely to say, putting words in peoples mouths wont win you any arguments.

I apologise.

Previous experience (on MSE) with such questioning usually leads to my answer being responded to with a "you're a fool" type response. I shouldn't have judged you on other peoples responses.

Anyway the PCN, is this the standard of the printing or have you altered it or has it got wet
If it is really printed this badly, the location is unintelligible and it is a very good reason for appeal.
Expect the council appeal to be rejected, they have nothing to lose, but i can not see the adjudicator agreeing that that meets the requirement of a served notice.
However, you may have to be coy, if you wait for the notice to owner, then you have another document to reply to claiming you can not read the first. Then you can make a formal appeal.

Regarding the notice - that's how i got it. It was absolutely bucketing it down yesterday & windy too - which is why i would've thought the parking fella would've stuck it under the wiper. He's clearly put it on the WET windscreen & it hasn't stuck very well & then the wind has blown it off. I suspect as it was quite windy that the sticky plastic has got in contact with the notice & ripped a bit of the paper off.

spacey2012

trouble is google maps are years out of date, so really a picture of the bay as it is now and sign and hope they missed something.
In the meantime write and demand they make available the "traffic regulation order" for this street.
Councils are notorious for not renewing them on time,
A TRO is what they claim to be enforcing under the regualtions, it is a legal document that expires and has to be re-newed periodically, if they dont have one, they have no restriction to enforce and the contravention can not occur where no contravention exist.
We had this in Dawlish and they had to re-fund Hundreds of tickets, our local busy body caught them out a good one !, no TRO and bang ! Down they go.

Nine_Lives

Well i took a trip through & sure enough google maps is out of date.

I'm a bit disappointed with the iPhone camera. It looked ok on my phone but looks awful on my PC. The flash just made EVERYTHING white, so had to take without...

photo of sign:



Yes that's me sticking an "F" on the sign in Paint - because you couldn't see it & the sign had an F in that square there.

Here's a very poor shot of the bay:



Basically it's just a dotted box next to the kerb. I would assume therefore that i am out of luck - the sign says "resident permit holders only".

I'm not a resident, i'm not a permit holder, i do (or did) have a blue badge, though not on show, but i don't even know whether the badge would entitle me to park there.They'd have to receive the appeal sharpish as we're now 3 days in to the 14. The only way to guarantee this with Xmas post is Special Delivery which is £5.90, So i'd have to have a fair shout at winning an appeal to appeal i think.

Coupon-mad

Email the appeal! Make it a simple 'Blue Badge mistake, sorry, first PCN' sort of grovel!

The back of the PCN gives an email addy and also says the Council will decide in each case whether to re-offer the discount (most do). So chances are if you get a rejection you'll have lost nowt, just bought some time.

DO NOT use Special or even Recorded Delivery to a Council or any large business (unless you're suing them or summat!). It would be a complete waste of your money because if the Council offices are closed it stays at the PO. Whereas if you use normal 1st class post, and get proof of posting from your PO (which is free) then it gets delivered sooner than the Recorded/Special delivery.

Nine_Lives

Ahh thanks for that tip.

I'll have to check whethe rmy mum has had a PCN before. I think she did, but i'm not sure whether it was with the same council. I think i remember her telling me she picked up a ticket of sorts when she had to go for some drive somewhere fairly far off. I'll need to ask.

NeverEnough

Had a similar situation with Leicester City Council years ago - partner parked in a non-residential area around the Uni there in a "permit holders only" bay mistakenly thinking the Blue Badge was a "permit" and no other BB parking seemed to be close to where she needed to be. Did appeal but the Council turned it down. They did offer the reduced rate though, for a further 14 days after the appeal. Knowing the area, you wonder which "permit holders" would be using those spaces, there are no residential blocks or uni residences nearby, just offices and the Uni has its own staff car parks, no businesses / shops in the adjoining area either.

TrickyWicky

Nine_Lives wrote: »

Was parked in a spot yesterday which turned out to be a "permit holders only" area.

So for starters, i don't even know whether a blue badge bypasses this or not. If not then there's going to be no joy.

No it doesn't. Some councils don't enforce this rule while others do. I've worked for two of them and one enforced it strictly while the other didn't. My colleagues there refused to believe the badge wasn't valid in a residents bay and so did the manager :eek: who insisted they WERE valid there - despite us having a pile of blue badge books that he could have read through to see the rules himself (seriously, you'd expect a parking manager to know this kind of stuff wouldn't you?!).

Nine_Lives wrote: »

That's when we have a look around & spot the small sign on the post saying permit holders only. Gutted.

All isn't lost. Many councils will still quash the PCN and give you the 1 strike then you're out policy with a minor slap over the knuckles. Write in, beg for mercy, explain the badge fell on the floor etc. They may say no (more councils are as they're short on cash) so if that happens you'll have to think carefully about an appeal to an adjudicator as technically they've got you hook, line and sinker.

Nine_Lives wrote: »

Just a question as to whether it's worth an appeal on the blue badge??

See above. Always write in to the council just in case they'll can it but if they have you good and proper an appeal to the adjudicator isn't going to be straight forward unless you can find a flaw in the enforcement (dodgy signs, etc).

Nine_Lives wrote: »

She appeals, sends in photocopies of her badges & wins, every time.

Some councils are more lenient than others. Some dread certain customers, some dread going down the adjudicator route etc, etc. It's pretty much luck of the draw.

Nine_Lives wrote: »

So i just wondered if it's worth a punt?

Always. You've nothing to lose but it does increase the amount of time you have until you have to pay them - IE it gives you more time to find the money.

Nine_Lives

Thanks.

The appeal went in last night via email. Stuck a "high importance" marker on for what good it'll do.

Just apologised a lot, said it wont happen again, will make sure in future of signs in the area as well as making sure the badge stays on the dash etc.


She has had a ticket once before, but was under another council. The other time was when she put her photo part on the dash the wrong side up.

Fingers crossed they'll have some Christmas spirit. I was going to go down the route of "can't afford after Xmas yada yada", but figured they'd take this as OTT & say no chance pal.