DVLA threatening to fine me.

paddedjohn

Sold my van to a trader back in May and sent the part of the v5 that I was given with their name and address on it to the DVLA, I have now received a letter threatening me with a fine because the van isn't taxed. There is a section on this letter for me to fill in if I have sold the vehicle but it telling me that I must enclose a copy of the acknowledgement letter otherwise I will be liable for the penalty. This sale took place 8 months ago and even if I did receive acknowledgement I doubt I would have it now, any ideas please.

Paradigm

Write back saying that you sold the van to xxx trader in May & sent the V5 as required by law, therefore you are not responsible or liable for the van in any way (or words to that effect)

Expect them to reply with the provide evidence of "confirmation letter" (no basis in current legislation) nonsense & when they do we can go from there.

See Joe Horner reply here https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4348329 just about covers it

paddedjohn

I have filled in the statement they sent me telling them who I sold it to and when, they want a copy of the acknowledgement which I haven't got so in the section called "I wish to provide the following information to the alleged offence:" I am replying as follows.......

I don't have a copy of any acknowledgement but you can see from your own records that the van was taxed for the period may-oct 2012 by the above named owners. Since April of this year I have owned another vehicle which is taxed, mot'd and insured as required by law. The v5c/3 was filled in and returned to DVLA in April 2012 when I sold the van. I have fullfilled all my obligations in law regarding the disposal of the vehicle.


Do you think I need to add anything more?

Paradigm

That's ok, a bit detail heavy but they'll probably ignore it anyway & harp on about the confirmation letter but nothing to be worried about. You have complied with the relevent law so not much they can do.

rev_henry

Yep we've had this before. They like to believe its your responsibility until you get the acknowledgement letter, i.e. if they lose the V5 you sent back its your fault, however in law your only responsibility is to post the V5 and they must prove otherwise if they wanna start fining you.

forgotmyname

Ask them to send you an acknowledgement letter so that you can return it with the form.

anotherbaldrick

Is it only me who keeps a photocopy of everything sent to the DVLA and staple the receipt of posting to it ? Shure one day it will be worth the effort.

Strider590

Once they've issued a fine, they'll keep chasing it until they get paid, they'll just keep changing what the fine is for until they're scraping the barrel for reasons.

Joe_Horner

DVLA do NOT issue fines, they issue "penalties". That may seem like just a choice of words, but it isn't. There are very important differences between a fine (from a Court) and a penalty (from the DVLA):

1) Courts can enforce payment of fines without getting permission from anyone else.

The DVLA cannot enforce a penalty without first getting a Court order to say that you owe the money and giving permission for them to enforce it.

2) When a Court fines you, you owe the money unless you successfully apply to a higher court which says you don't have to pay.

When the DVLA issues a penalty, you do not owe the money unless they successfully apply to a Court which says you do have to pay.

3) If you refuse to pay a fine (from a Court), you can be faced with bailiffs, arrest or even jail.

If you refuse to pay a penalty (from DVLA) you can't be arrested, you can't be jailed, and they can only send bailiffs after they: go to court, win in court, give you whatever time to pay that the Judge says they must, and then go back to the court if you still refuse.


Effectively, a DVLA penalty has no more legal standing than those parking invoices that PPCs like to issue until a Court confirms it. DVLA know that, and they also know that the chance of getting a court order is very slim.

So they'll use every trick in the book to harrass and intimidate you into paying voluntarily. Whether or not you do really comes down to how well you can hold your nerve, and how much of their aggro you're willing to put up with.

Rover_Driver

Joe_Horner wrote: »

Effectively, a DVLA penalty has no more legal standing than those parking invoices that PPCs like to issue until a Court confirms it. DVLA know that, and they also know that the chance of getting a court order is very slim.

Not quite the same, the matters dealt with by the DVLA are contrary to the Vehicles Excise & Registration Act 1994.

The Late Licensing Penalty is section 7A.

Joe_Horner

Rover_Driver wrote: »

Not quite the same, the matters dealt with by the DVLA are contrary to the Vehicles Excise & Registration Act 1994.

It's effectively the same unless they manage to get a court order, because until that point it's an unsubstantiated demand for payment - they say you owe them money and you say you don't. In both cases (PPCs and DVLA), they can't enforce payment unless a Court agrees with their claim.

The only real difference is that if you ignore the DVLA they will eventually apply for the court order, and probably get one by default if you've ignored them, rather than dropping it like parking companies tend to.

The flip side of that is that if you reply to them but stick to "you sent the paperwork, you owe them nothing, and you look forward to showing that in court", they usually don't bother because they know they're on a very sticky wicket and only like to pursue uncontested cases.