Would love to be debt free but budget is a nightmare

worried48

When I say a nightmare, it's a nightmare to actually work it out. This is because we are self-employed, my husband counts as a sole trader though I am the one who does most in the business as it is my area of expertise not his (he does the paperwork). Consequently it's impossible to say what our income is from one week's end to the next. We have been hit by the recession and our turnover is far lower than it used to be, but there is no way to predict our income with anything like accuracy, and also we can't ever know exactly when we are going to be paid as it depends on when we actually make a sale. Then there is the little detail that some of our sales are to schools and that can mean waiting anything up to three months for payment. Meanwhile our main supplier wants to be paid more and more quickly. We have been struggling all through the recession as a result.

Just recently we got nearly 7k from a PPI claim :j which enabled us to pay off three wholesalers (one of which we owed almost 3k to and had owed that for months, we had been expecting a very nasty letter any day, that is now avoided, my husband's credit rating had not suffered). It has also enabled us to go back to a supplier in China we dealt with in the past but had to cease dealing with due to lack of money. This means there are now some things we can get cheaper than through a wholesaler and they will be better quality too. All good!

I owe around 8k on credit cards (four "bad credit" ones) plus a catalogue and an overdraft. Husband owes 11.5k on a loan, nearly 10k on one card and probably a similar amount on another (he won't tell me how much he owes on that one so it is a guess based on how much he pays them). He has an overdraft of £1200 on one account and £3300 on the business account. We can cover the minimum payments and have not defaulted on any of those at any time. I did have to take out a Wonga loan for five days a couple of months ago when the cashflow was worse than usual. Between us we pay around £1100 a month just on paying back our debts and these debts have gone up and up over the past couple of years.

In addition to the business I get £54 a week DLA, and as a Lay Preacher I sometimes get a preaching fee - this averaged out this year at about £20 a week but will be less next year.

We rent a storage unit which costs us £34 a week and is about three times the size we need. All we have in it, is old stock we can't sell - in the days when we took this unit on, we used to import a lot from China by sea which meant a lot arrived at once. That has not been possible for years. I want to get rid of this unit but my husband will not move the old stock into the house as he says there is too muck junk in here already (this is true but we do have a room it could all go in, if only I could make him do it). I want to try ebaying some of this stuff, cutting our losses, because of the fact that it would save storage costs, but to do that we need to spend quite a lot of time in the storage unit and that is unheated, so it isn't the most attractive prospect. Besides which we are not yet quite over the Christmas rush. However I am determined to do this as soon as the Christmas rush is over with a view to having things on ebay immediately after Christmas when people are sitting online with nothing to do except spend their Christmas money.

Two more slightly unusual things. First, we live in a house that belongs to my father (who never did have difficulty dealing with money!) and we live in it rent free and can treat it as our own. It is very run down, having had no maintenance at all since he bought it in 1980! However it is effectively ours, it will be left to me in my father's will (though I think he has years to go yet) and as they have a nice house themselves it isn't very likely that we would ever have to leave this house even if both parents should end up in a care home. Though I suppose one can never be totally certain about that.

Second unusual thing, I breed cats for a hobby. It costs an arm and a leg. Any of you who think cat breeders make money, think again. Cat food and litter alone cost me around £180 a week :eek: Part of our problem this year has resulted from major medical problems with the cats which meant kittens could not leave, some have just gone last week aged 7 to 9 MONTHS :eek: - and they went for next to nothing because of their age. I now have some here aged between 4 and 5 months who need to be going after Christmas. And yes I also need to reduce the number of adults I have. I have to employ a cleaner which costs me about £35 a week (this varies according to how long she spends here), I am not physically able to clean the place myself. Sometimes I also have to pay someone to do a special clean on the cat pens. Against this I have (in theory) kitten sales and stud fees coming in (also unpredictable, of course)

So, not sure what help I can expect since I can't do an SOA and it is blindingly obvious where the problems are, but at least by posting this perhaps I am making a start.

cte1111

I think you should have a go at an SOA. You need to keep the business debts separate to start off with. You should still know what your monthly utility, food, cat food and cleaner will be.

Cats: if you're not making a profit, then why not just keep your adult cats (or some of them depending on how many you have) as pets and give up on the breeding. If you are serious about getting out of debt, then you can't afford an expensive hobby like this. If you get straight in the future, you could go back to this, but for now, cut your costs and throw the extra money at your debts.

Debts: list the credit card debts and APR, alongside catalogues, loans (including any from your Dad?).

Your business: you really need to do some sums on this separately to see if it is worth continuing. If it is making a loss, your husband might well be better looking for a salaried job (easier said than done I know). You might be able to use your administrative skills to do the books for some other small businesses.

Storage unit: sounds like a great idea to empty it and ebay the excess. Stick to your plan to do this once your seasonal rush is over.

beanielou

Break it all into baby steps and do things one at a time.
£180 a week sounds like an auful lot for cat food and litter to me.

worried48

cte1111 wrote: »

I think you should have a go at an SOA. You need to keep the business debts separate to start off with.

OK, will have a go. The business itself is not now in debt, apart from current invoices, plus one very small overdue invoice which we can pay as soon as we can find it (this is another difficulty - my husband loses papers constantly - even cheques!)

Cats: if you're not making a profit, then why not just keep your adult cats (or some of them depending on how many you have) as pets and give up on the breeding. If you are serious about getting out of debt, then you can't afford an expensive hobby like this. If you get straight in the future, you could go back to this, but for now, cut your costs and throw the extra money at your debts.

One thing I am looking at. I have two breeds and one breaks even at least. The other is much more difficult because it is a far less well known breed, unfortunately most of my cats are of that breed. And it is difficult (very) to rehome adults, especially former stud cats. I do need to have a massive stock take and get a lot of them neutered, and rehomed if possible, that is a job for after Christmas. It has been an abnormally bad year but what I need to know is whether it is possible to break even at some level. This I am looking at, meanwhile I do have some cat contraceptives in stock which some of them will be using :rotfl:

Debts: list the credit card debts and APR, alongside catalogues, loans (including any from your Dad?).

None from my Dad. How do I find the APRs? They don't exactly seem to be obvious from my online statements. They are high - Vanquis at something like 59%!

Your business: you really need to do some sums on this separately to see if it is worth continuing. If it is making a loss, your husband might well be better looking for a salaried job (easier said than done I know). You might be able to use your administrative skills to do the books for some other small businesses.

Definitely well in profit, otherwise we would have been bankrupt a long time ago. Husband is unemployable partly, but not only, because he is nearly at retirement age. Also he was unemployed for 20 years before we met. I used to be a teacher but now I can hardly walk so that isn't an option.

Storage unit: sounds like a great idea to empty it and ebay the excess. Stick to your plan to do this once your seasonal rush is over.

Will indeed do that. Also we have some camera stuff left over from when we first started on ebay 11 years ago (we used to deal in that) - it's film camera stuff so whether or not it has any value is another issue but it's only taking up space here.

worried48

beanielou wrote: »

Break it all into baby steps and do things one at a time.
£180 a week sounds like an auful lot for cat food and litter to me.

I have an awful lot of cats!

Betty_Crumble

worried48 wrote: »

When I say a nightmare, it's a nightmare to actually work it out. This is because we are self-employed, my husband counts as a sole trader though I am the one who does most in the business as it is my area of expertise not his (he does the paperwork). Consequently it's impossible to say what our income is from one week's end to the next. We have been hit by the recession and our turnover is far lower than it used to be, but there is no way to predict our income with anything like accuracy, and also we can't ever know exactly when we are going to be paid as it depends on when we actually make a sale. Then there is the little detail that some of our sales are to schools and that can mean waiting anything up to three months for payment. Meanwhile our main supplier wants to be paid more and more quickly. We have been struggling all through the recession as a result.

Just recently we got nearly 7k from a PPI claim :j which enabled us to pay off three wholesalers (one of which we owed almost 3k to and had owed that for months, we had been expecting a very nasty letter any day, that is now avoided, my husband's credit rating had not suffered). It has also enabled us to go back to a supplier in China we dealt with in the past but had to cease dealing with due to lack of money. This means there are now some things we can get cheaper than through a wholesaler and they will be better quality too. All good!

I owe around 8k on credit cards (four "bad credit" ones) plus a catalogue and an overdraft. Husband owes 11.5k on a loan, nearly 10k on one card and probably a similar amount on another (he won't tell me how much he owes on that one so it is a guess based on how much he pays them). He has an overdraft of £1200 on one account and £3300 on the business account. We can cover the minimum payments and have not defaulted on any of those at any time. I did have to take out a Wonga loan for five days a couple of months ago when the cashflow was worse than usual. Between us we pay around £1100 a month just on paying back our debts and these debts have gone up and up over the past couple of years.

In addition to the business I get £54 a week DLA, and as a Lay Preacher I sometimes get a preaching fee - this averaged out this year at about £20 a week but will be less next year.

We rent a storage unit which costs us £34 a week and is about three times the size we need. All we have in it, is old stock we can't sell - in the days when we took this unit on, we used to import a lot from China by sea which meant a lot arrived at once. That has not been possible for years. I want to get rid of this unit but my husband will not move the old stock into the house as he says there is too muck junk in here already (this is true but we do have a room it could all go in, if only I could make him do it). I want to try ebaying some of this stuff, cutting our losses, because of the fact that it would save storage costs, but to do that we need to spend quite a lot of time in the storage unit and that is unheated, so it isn't the most attractive prospect. Besides which we are not yet quite over the Christmas rush. However I am determined to do this as soon as the Christmas rush is over with a view to having things on ebay immediately after Christmas when people are sitting online with nothing to do except spend their Christmas money.

Two more slightly unusual things. First, we live in a house that belongs to my father (who never did have difficulty dealing with money!) and we live in it rent free and can treat it as our own. It is very run down, having had no maintenance at all since he bought it in 1980! However it is effectively ours, it will be left to me in my father's will (though I think he has years to go yet) and as they have a nice house themselves it isn't very likely that we would ever have to leave this house even if both parents should end up in a care home. Though I suppose one can never be totally certain about that.

Second unusual thing, I breed cats for a hobby. It costs an arm and a leg. Any of you who think cat breeders make money, think again. Cat food and litter alone cost me around £180 a week :eek: Part of our problem this year has resulted from major medical problems with the cats which meant kittens could not leave, some have just gone last week aged 7 to 9 MONTHS :eek: - and they went for next to nothing because of their age. I now have some here aged between 4 and 5 months who need to be going after Christmas. And yes I also need to reduce the number of adults I have. I have to employ a cleaner which costs me about £35 a week (this varies according to how long she spends here), I am not physically able to clean the place myself. Sometimes I also have to pay someone to do a special clean on the cat pens. Against this I have (in theory) kitten sales and stud fees coming in (also unpredictable, of course)

So, not sure what help I can expect since I can't do an SOA and it is blindingly obvious where the problems are, but at least by posting this perhaps I am making a start.

worried48 wrote: »

OK, will have a go. The business itself is not now in debt, apart from current invoices, plus one very small overdue invoice which we can pay as soon as we can find it (this is another difficulty - my husband loses papers constantly - even cheques!)

One thing I am looking at. I have two breeds and one breaks even at least. The other is much more difficult because it is a far less well known breed, unfortunately most of my cats are of that breed. And it is difficult (very) to rehome adults, especially former stud cats. I do need to have a massive stock take and get a lot of them neutered, and rehomed if possible, that is a job for after Christmas. It has been an abnormally bad year but what I need to know is whether it is possible to break even at some level. This I am looking at, meanwhile I do have some cat contraceptives in stock which some of them will be using :rotfl:

None from my Dad. How do I find the APRs? They don't exactly seem to be obvious from my online statements. They are high - Vanquis at something like 59%!

Definitely well in profit, otherwise we would have been bankrupt a long time ago. Husband is unemployable partly, but not only, because he is nearly at retirement age. Also he was unemployed for 20 years before we met. I used to be a teacher but now I can hardly walk so that isn't an option.
Will indeed do that. Also we have some camera stuff left over from when we first started on ebay 11 years ago (we used to deal in that) - it's film camera stuff so whether or not it has any value is another issue but it's only taking up space here.

I have highlighted a few bits from your posts and I think you two need to have a massive talk and be honest with each other, he should tell you how much he owes, i'd be worried that there could be more if he's being vague about what he owes.

the first thing you need to do is restructure who does what. So you take over the paperwork as it seems to be a weak spot for him and get rid of the cleaner and he takes over that. You both need to clear the stuff that is stopping you storing your own stock and get rid of the lock up, thats £1820 a year, a month and a half of debt repayment, then the same if not more from the cleaner. You are paying out £3640 for things you can do yourselves.
Your cats are costing you £9360 a year :eek: thats a wage for some people. I'm sorry to say it but thats not a hobby, you cant afford it, your cats are adding to your debt.

£13k a year so far and thats with you not posting a soa on other things that can probably be cut.

I have highlighted that your hubby not worked for 20 yrs before you met can I ask why? I know he's approaching retirement age now but is there any physical reason why he cant bring any money in, 20 + yrs is a long time if not and I'd be looking into what he can do as it might need a change of attitude from him. There's catalogue delivering if he drives, paper round if not (my pops did this so its not that far fetched) Do you have a shopping area close by, he could run errands. My small shopping area all pool together to pay the errand 'man' (he's at least 65) and he goes post office for them, fetches milk etc. Its something to think about, there's no room for misplaced pride when it comes to getting an income.

I'm sorry if any of this sounds harsh as its not meant to but there are a few points that made my eyebrows raise. I wish you the best of luck with this and please keep posting.

worried48

Betty_Crumble wrote: »

I have highlighted a few bits from your posts and I think you two need to have a massive talk and be honest with each other, he should tell you how much he owes, i'd be worried that there could be more if he's being vague about what he owes.

This is most unlikely - I do know what comes in and out of the business account which is the only way he gets paid. I don't think there is any way he could hide any other debts.

the first thing you need to do is restructure who does what. So you take over the paperwork as it seems to be a weak spot for him and get rid of the cleaner and he takes over that.

Complete non-starter I'm afraid. He flatly refuses to do anything in the house. It is all I can do to get him to actually empty the office bin. Seriously.

.
Your cats are costing you £9360 a year :eek: thats a wage for some people. I'm sorry to say it but thats not a hobby, you cant afford it, your cats are adding to your debt.

That is the root of the problem as far as I am concerned. It's a matter of working out how to deal with it.

have highlighted that your hubby not worked for 20 yrs before you met can I ask why? I know he's approaching retirement age now but is there any physical reason why he cant bring any money in, 20 + yrs is a long time if not and I'd be looking into what he can do as it might need a change of attitude from him. There's catalogue delivering if he drives, paper round if not (my pops did this so its not that far fetched) Do you have a shopping area close by, he could run errands. My small shopping area all pool together to pay the errand 'man' (he's at least 65) and he goes post office for them, fetches milk etc. Its something to think about, there's no room for misplaced pride when it comes to getting an income.

I agree, but when I say he is unemployable I really do mean that. He was made redundant 30 years ago and has not worked since except in the business which is onyl a very few hours a week. After such a length of time one becomes impossible to employ. I would not employ him! I can't go into much more detail because anyone who knows us would be able to identify us easily from what I have posted already. He is not physically capable of doing very much but there is a lot more to it than that.

Betty_Crumble

worried48 wrote: »

This is most unlikely - I do know what comes in and out of the business account which is the only way he gets paid. I don't think there is any way he could hide any other debts.

Complete non-starter I'm afraid. He flatly refuses to do anything in the house. It is all I can do to get him to actually empty the office bin. Seriously.

That is the root of the problem as far as I am concerned. It's a matter of working out how to deal with it.


I agree, but when I say he is unemployable I really do mean that. He was made redundant 30 years ago and has not worked since except in the business which is onyl a very few hours a week. After such a length of time one becomes impossible to employ. I would not employ him! I can't go into much more detail because anyone who knows us would be able to identify us easily from what I have posted already. He is not physically capable of doing very much but there is a lot more to it than that.

It must be frustrating for you i'm sure but I think you already know what you've got to do, with or without his help i'm afraid. I really do wish you well on your journey and if you cut your losses on the kitty's I think that'll make good strides. Good luck

FinKite

To be honest, I think you are making it more comicated than it is. You're paying £34 a week in storage because your husband doesn't want stuff in the house and it's cold? REALLY? Frankly, when you are in debt, tough luck. Stick a jumper on, and get those boxes moved into your house. You'll stay warm moving them anyway.
No way would I accept my husband "not wanting to tell me" how much he owes. You need to know. Now. Just because you know how much you give him (and it's give, not pay, as he clearly does nothing) and how much he is paying out, doesn't mean you know the balance.
You need to do a full SOA, for yourself if not on here. That means you have to know what he owes.
You seem to be making excuses a bit - too cold to empty storage unit, too hard to see the APRs (pick up the phone and ask - done) etc...
And the cats need to go.

worried48

FinKite wrote: »

To be honest, I think you are making it more comicated than it is. You're paying £34 a week in storage because your husband doesn't want stuff in the house and it's cold? REALLY? Frankly, when you are in debt, tough luck. Stick a jumper on, and get those boxes moved into your house. You'll stay warm moving them anyway.

I am disabled and the storage unit is upstairs.

And the cats need to go.

Not an option. Reducing the numbers, yes.

katsu

If it costs £34 a week, how much profit is left in the stuff in storage? Can you put it like that to your OH and suggest that either he gets it emptied into the house for you to list on ebay, or you set a deadline by which whatever is left is emptied by a house clearance firm or charity, so that you save the £34 a week?