Not 'doing' Santa

notanewuser

Person_one wrote: »

There's a definite hint of the 'mummy wars' about some of the no-Santa posts, I have to say.

Is being in the majority every now and then really so bad OP? I bet when you were a teenager you were the type that only liked a band until they became popular and then disowned them.

It's no war, lol. I do what's best for my daughter to the best of my ability. Some of it is damn hard - there is some sort of challenge most days. But I'm very lucky to have a healthy, happy child who finds magic for herself and is a joy to be around (most if not all the time!).

alyth

notanewuser wrote: »

It's no war, lol. I do what's best for my daughter to the best of my ability. Some of it is damn hard - there is some sort of challenge most days. But I'm very lucky to have a healthy, happy child who finds magic for herself and is a joy to be around (most if not all the time!).

get a dog, they're easier and don't understand christmas! As a non-parent the only advice I would say is follow your instinct - magic comes in many forms, it doesn't have to wear a read suit and indoctrinate small children (and adults!)

Bitsy_Beans

OrkneyStar wrote: »

I don't think badly of those who do Santa (or any other myth/magic), what I do think badly of is them telling me I am some sort of strange person/idiot/un-caring/self-ish/spoilsport because I chose not to promote the idea.
End of. I kind of think the OP feels similarly to me on that?

TBH I think badly of people who suggest that by perpetuating a myth I am a liar and all that implies. I am truthful with my children when appropriate but I find it rather pretentious when people sit in their ivory towers declaring how they'll never lie to their children. ETA my H hit a deer with his car (well more the other way round). Kids noticed damage to car wanted to know why. We told them deer hit car and ran away. Did I really want to tell my kids deer was maimed and probably going to die an agonising death? Not particularly so in order to spare their distress we "lied". Does that make for bad parenting? Are we supposed to be able to present something's one way but not others?
Well I believe in Father Christmas. He was a real individual and I like to believe his spirit and generosity lives on albeit in a more secular guise.

Treevo

Nicki wrote: »

Umm? Because most children get presents (sometimes, as with our house, just small ones) from Santa AND presents from family. Some families I know say that everything is from Santa, but not very many AFAIK say that none of them are from Santa unless they have also had the conversation with the child that Santa does not exist.

When this child looks to see which one Santa brought, the answer is that he brought her nothing. Which is OK I guess if her parents have told her that he doesn't exist, but in my opinion a real kick in the teeth for a 4 year old if they have "allowed her to believe" that he does exist.

Perhaps I am slightly coloured by the fact that I still remember the fallout 40 years after it happened when the parents of a neighbouring child decided to tell her Santa hadn't come this year because she was naughty. I was about 3 at the time and the naughty child was a bit older, maybe 6 or 7. I can remember to this day her profound distress, her name, her parents names, etc and we moved house the summer after this happened and I haven't had any contact with this family since, but the trauma that child suffered had such a profound impression on me even at that young age.

I just don't think it is an option for any decent parent to NOT tell the child Santa doesn't exist but also not to leave at least a token present from him.

I think this is a bit of logic that's been twisted and left out in the sun too long.

Father Christmas brought all the gifts to our house, but he didn't buy any of them. They were all signed from whoever bought them. Father Christmas was just a glorified delivery man when you get right down to it. It didn't take away any magic or wonder because the labels said "love from mummy and daddy" rather than "love from Father Christmas".

I don't actually know of anyone ever saying anything about Father Christmas not bringing the presents just because the labels were from someone else.

I think one of the biggest benefits of Father Christmas is when the kids work it out for themselves that he's not real. I know when I did, it changed into preserving the magic for my younger siblings, which is an entirely different skill and lesson to learn, but one that's vital for a child IMO.

You'll all have to excuse me while I hack up a lung laughing at the religious posters posturing about how they would never ever lie to their little darlings.:rotfl:

shegirl

Treevo wrote: »

I think this is a bit of logic that's been twisted and left out in the sun too long.

Father Christmas brought all the gifts to our house, but he didn't buy any of them. They were all signed from whoever bought them. Father Christmas was just a glorified delivery man when you get right down to it. It didn't take away any magic or wonder because the labels said "love from mummy and daddy" rather than "love from Father Christmas".

I don't actually know of anyone ever saying anything about Father Christmas not bringing the presents just because the labels were from someone else.

I think one of the biggest benefits of Father Christmas is when the kids work it out for themselves that he's not real. I know when I did, it changed into preserving the magic for my younger siblings, which is an entirely different skill and lesson to learn, but one that's vital for a child IMO.

You'll all have to excuse me while I hack up a lung laughing at the religious posters posturing about how they would never ever lie to their little darlings.:rotfl:

Hey,come on! Be fair. Feeding the five thousand,turning water into wine and resurrection are all believable, provable facts. It enriches life.

Meanwhile, a fat man in a red suit, giving presents is as unbelievable as it gets and makes kids feel naughty, terrified and damages them and therefore should be avoided at all costs and the truth be known.

Imagine telling your little darlings such a story:eek:



:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

OrkneyStar

Bitsy_Beans wrote: »

TBH I think badly of people who suggest that by perpetuating a myth I am a liar and all that implies. I am truthful with my children when appropriate but I find it rather pretentious when people sit in their ivory towers declaring how they'll never lie to their children. ETA my H hit a deer with his car (well more the other way round). Kids noticed damage to car wanted to know why. We told them deer hit car and ran away. Did I really want to tell my kids deer was maimed and probably going to die an agonising death? Not particularly so in order to spare their distress we "lied". Does that make for bad parenting? Are we supposed to be able to present something's one way but not others?
Well I believe in Father Christmas. He was a real individual and I like to believe his spirit and generosity lives on albeit in a more secular guise.

I would have told him 'we hit a deer and it probably got hurt, quite badly'. That is nature and shielding kids from the reality of that, including death, is also something I wouldn't do. That said, I am not saying I am any better than you, for the way you do it, just that I would not do it that way. Sorry if this offends you, it isn't meant to set as apart as one good, one bad, just different. I personally think the more you hide stuff, and then have to present the reality at a later date (or someone else does, as obviously there are teachers, other kids etc), it is actually harder to then tell the truth, for them and you. Of course certain things don't need to blurted out, but if he asks then he gets the truth, albeit a version suitable for his age and understanding. They do have a natural inquisitiveness/acceptant at younger ages, and maybe don't analyse so much- not sure? So far he seems a very happy child, looking forward to Christmas and so on. He has been told about Santa, and the story of it (we don't hide his existence), and that a lot of children really believe this. Just like the nativity, he believes that, and a lot of children don't. Ultimately they ALL have fun together, from what I have seen.

(ETA suggesting that anyone thinks they are better than anyone else, as means of argument generally weakens the case. I don't think, on the whole, we have done that as yet too much in this thread.).

Bitsy_Beans

OrkneyStar wrote: »

I would have told him 'we hit a deer and it probably got hurt, quite badly'. That is nature and shielding kids from the reality of that, including death, is also something I wouldn't do. That said, I am not saying I am any better than you, for the way you do it, just that I would not do it that way. Sorry if this offends you, it isn't meant to set as apart as one good, one bad, just different. I personally think the more you hide stuff, and then have to present the reality at a later date (or someone else does, as obviously there are teachers, other kids etc), it is actually harder to then tell the truth, for them and you. Of course certain things don't need to blurted out, but if he asks then he gets the truth, albeit a version suitable for his age and understanding. They do have a natural inquisitiveness/acceptant at younger ages, and maybe don't analyse so much- not sure? So far he seems a very happy child, looking forward to Christmas and so on. He has been told about Santa, and the story of it (we don't hide his existence), and that a lot of children really believe this. Just like the nativity, he believes that, and a lot of children don't. Ultimately they ALL have fun together, from what I have seen.

(ETA suggesting that anyone thinks they are better than anyone else, as means of argument generally weakens the case. I don't think, on the whole, we have done that as yet too much in this thread.).

We don't hide loads of stuff from our kids. I don't think actually many parents do. In this past year we have had to explain the death of my grandfather and family pets. However DS is of an age whereby he is questioning more, my H is working away a lot so kids are more worried and unsettled, my DD is very sensitive about things. She cries as Garfield for goodness sakes. So for sake of further worry and distress we tweaked the story.

Its not so much that anyone has outright said "my way is better" but there is a suggestion of always telling the truth is some sort of moral high road. Along with never using leverage <shock horror> against your children. Using quite emotive language (and I am afraid suggesting teaching children about FC is akin to lying is going to fall into that catagory) then you can see why people get quite passionate about things.

OrkneyStar

Bitsy_Beans wrote: »

We don't hide loads of stuff from our kids. I don't think actually many parents do. In this past year we have had to explain the death of my grandfather and family pets. However DS is of an age whereby he is questioning more, my H is working away a lot so kids are more worried and unsettled, my DD is very sensitive about things. She cries as Garfield for goodness sakes. So for sake of further worry and distress we tweaked the story.

Its not so much that anyone has outright said "my way is better" but there is a suggestion of always telling the truth is some sort of moral high road. Along with never using leverage <shock horror> against your children. Using quite emotive language (and I am afraid suggesting teaching children about FC is akin to lying is going to fall into that catagory) then you can see why people get quite passionate about things.

No higher moral ground, honestly, just what feels right to me. Have you ever wanted to do something, but something inside (someone else referred to it as 'gut') stops you, or vice versa with something you really don't want to do? That is the best way I can explain it. I didn't sit down and say 'I will be a better parent than X,Y,Z, one day', something inside just tells me it isn't the right way to go for us! It's not a comparison until we start discussing it on here. Perhaps your gut is telling you the exact opposite? Is that why we are all so passionate, just something we fundamentally feel is right for us and our families? Who knows.
TBH I only spoke up as I do think there is a minority who don't promote Santa, yet feel that everyone else is telling them they should, and so don't say how they honestly feel (to other adults I mean, not blurting it out to random 5 yr olds!). DS and I have already had another conversation this morning, along the lines of the Santa story, he told me he doesn't believe it, but he is not about to shout it, and just smiles and says 'that's good' if other children mention it.
Have a brilliant Christmas anyway .

OrkneyStar

shegirl wrote: »

Hey,come on! Be fair. Feeding the five thousand,turning water into wine and resurrection are all believable, provable facts. It enriches life.

Meanwhile, a fat man in a red suit, giving presents is as unbelievable as it gets and makes kids feel naughty, terrified and damages them and therefore should be avoided at all costs and the truth be known.

Imagine telling your little darlings such a story:eek:



:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Why are you still comparing religion and Santa? (You seem to have got most people's reasons for avoiding the whole Santa thing a little confused too, for the record).
The OP doesn't do either, I do the first, you do the second, I am not sure what point you are trying to promote with this.

Treevo

OrkneyStar wrote: »

Why are you still comparing religion and Santa? (You seem to have got most people's reasons for avoiding the whole Santa thing a little confused too, for the record).
The OP doesn't do either, I do the first, you do the second, I am not sure what point you are trying to promote with this.

Just those on the thread who have piously declared that they would never lie to their children. Unless it's about a higher being, for which there is no evidence, but that doesn't matter apparently.

It's apparently terrible to tell a child that Father Christmas is watching, but fine and dandy to tell them stories about the wrathful god who massacres people for giggles. Or tell them that they'll be going to hell if they don't do God's will - I can totally understand how that's much nicer than the thought of no Christmas presents.