The Ultimate Incentive natters on. Part 9

Dinah93

I may sound mad but I do support his choice to go back to uni now, it's such a long study period its better to start it sooner rather than later. It's just hard not to wish he hadn't done the right degree the first time around and we weren't in this position now.

CMD, I've so much holiday I'll be part time when I return to work through until February, then we're hoping I can drop 3 hours a week to do 34 hours over 4 days, to give me one day off a week, but it seems a big jump from the 2.5 I was hoping for. Healthwise a baby sooner rather than later would be better, we certainly can't wait 8 years for NIM to finish studying.

Dinah93

And as far as benefits go we're entitled to child benefit and that's all

N.I.M

Hey Girls.

Just to respond to the uni stuff, firstly no one has overstepped any lines here, I'm genuinely glad to have you lot throwing the issue about, makes it easier to see if we've missed something. So please don't take anything I say as defensive, aggressive or insulting. You lot are one of the best sounding boards I know of.

Before I respond to what you guys have said, I have a bit of a confession to make. Nursing is a means to an end, the long term aim here is Dr N.I.M. There are two routes open to me, either I do a year 0, which I can only get onto by working in care first (effectively a 6 year degree) but there are only 5 places on a year, or a 3 year nursing degree followed by a 4 year conversion course. This is followed by the 2 years of the Foundation Program, then 8 years as a registrar. I didn't mention it as I haven't done the aptitude test yet and if my score isn't high enough then Dr N.I.M can't happen.

Now finances first, taking account of grants available and adding in the fact I'd be working bank care on top of my study I would be "earning" very roughly within about 2k of what I could in an MR job after commuting costs as I'd have to go to Leeds, York or Newcastle (30-60 miles each way) and as close as makes no odds to my working full time in care. With all that being said, compared to where I was in March the drop is significantly larger.

From the childcare perspective, the nurseries at the university are much less expensive than other nurseries in the area and Grace would be able to go in by the hour rather than by the half day so I'd have her with me a lot more.

The biggest downside I can see on this one is the fact that D won’t be able to take the amount of time off work to spend with Grace that she wanted to. And yes this upsets me, but short of a lottery win or a new MR agency opening down the road from here it’s just not going to be possible for me to have the income to get us to a point where we can do that.

Now feel free to tell me I'm being selfish, blind, trying to delude myself and so on. I'm genuinely interested to hear what you guys say on it but my view on where we are is this.

I'm at a point where going back to university will not have a significant negative impact on our financial position compared with my working full time, and if it gets put off I'll be further up the chain and that won't be true anymore and I then won't go back.

tinkerbel

Are there no option re grad entry medicine? Or I suppose your degree (law?) isn't relevant..? That would make it only 4 years though... But hey a welsh rugby player just qualified and he played international rugby so it's possible to juggle a lot of things and I'm sure if any one can do it you can, especially with such great family support from Dinah and Gracie! Is it the uk cat you have to do to see if its a possibility?

clearmydebts

NIM - you are not selfish at all and never could be. I can totally see the logic behind it. Only you 2 can make the decision.

With regards nursery - is Grace allowed to go to nursery now? I thought that she wasn't allowed to go to a creche/nursery because of her health?

I think you guys need to really sit down and map out a plan for all of this. Healthwise - when do you need to have another baby by Dinah? Do you both definitely want another child? From my perspective having a second child would take priority, esp with regards to D's health (if that's what you want). However - if you can wait and it's safe to do so you are both young enough to have a good gap between Grace and a sibling.

Loads of people work full-time and their child is in daycare/nursery. And the child is absolutely fine! If a mother has to work for financial reasons then it has to be done! But are you okay with this Dinah? Would you be okay with Grace going to nursery 4 days a week? My OH did compressed hours over 4 days last year and it was very tiring. I work 2 days a week and would not be happy to leave my kids for any longer than that. But if I had to do full-time for financial reason I would do it, but I would be upset. If I went full-time we could get rid of our debts quicker and save for a house quicker but I feel that stage of M and E's life will pass so quickly I want to be around for them most of the time.

I am not saying this to be mean, or harsh. I just genuinely want the 2 of you to sit down and work out what is important to you both at this time.

But neither of you feel guilty about wanting to improve your careers, or give Grace a better life. The 2 of you are fantastic parents and Grace is very lucky to have such stable and good people as parents.

kavics17

I don't write often but here are my thoughts.

NiM, you are not selfish and I do wish you all the luck for the future, changing a carrier is a huge step and I for once know what it involves ( though I did it before starting a family).

But. There is a but. It will never be the right time to start all over again, the question is whether now is the best time of doing it. I know you have this planned out, working part time, studying part time but how realistic is that you could do it for long term? My brother studied medicine and all I could remember is that he buried himself in the books for weeks at a time, he had no life whatsoever and def had no time and energy to work part time and he had no children at that point. How realistic is that you will receive the grants? How would you feel if in a year or two you will need to take a break from studying purely because of financial reasons? Or family reasons. Can you manage the standard of living you are used to on Dinah's salary if necessary?

And Dinah's, how do you feel going back full time? I know you still have holidays to use up and you can stay with Grace part time in the short term but at one point you will need to go back full time. What will happen if you get pregnant and you will have hard time once again ( I so not wish this but can't predict what will happen). What happens if you lose your job by any chance or if you are made redundant? Would you be able to get a similar paid job in your area? Can you afford two in childcare? How do you feel taking on more responsibilities if necessary just to support NIM with studying-thinking of working full time, dealing with the kids, house, paperwork, being on your own at the weekends bec NIM is at work or needs to study, etc. How realistic is that the debt won't go up too much or that you can maintain repayment? And how do you feel about working full time with one or two little ones? It is impossible to predict but wouldn't you be higher risk at getting depression if it gets a bit too much?

Sorry, lots of questions and I'm sure you thought about every scenario but as a mum I know it would break my heart to go back to work full time and not see baby kavics. it might only be me (and you could call me selfish) but if Leo would be still alive I would not support his change of carrier at this stage and would ask him to delay it till baby kavics starts school. As he did ask me to wait with ttc until we were financially more stable even though I desperately wanted to have kids in my mid 20s I compromised and we had her when i turned 33-financially it was the best decision we made together but for obv reasons I so wish we had her years ago.

Rumblings over.

Lara44

((((Hugs Kavics))))

Greetings from Paris!! The workshop was today and it went brilliantly. It was just such a good bunch of people, that made it really special already. Highs and lows though, I was really sick last night - don't know what happened, bad food or something. So I was a bit of a wreck today. I enjoyed it but wasn't the sharpest tool in the toolbox.

The flat is not as nice in the pictures and it is a bit whiffy! It's above a Cuban bar so there were numpties squealing all hours of the night. But it's an incredible location, just 2 minutes walk from Notre Dame. Looking forward to enjoying the conference now, and the few days off at the end of the week. I know I haven't done half my AAs but am definitely counting this workshop, and the new small website that I made :j

Hope everyone had a great weekend xx

Tesco_points_addict

OK...my two pennies worth:

I think NIM ha already given up an awful lot, when he first moved to the UK it was agreed he would be able to go back home regularly, but this has not happened due to financial constraints....however you have both gone on some very expensive holidays....money which maybe could have been spent on trips to Ireland. However the past is just that.......

There will NEVER be a right time to return to studying, so with that in mind....now is a good a time as any....perhaps losing the job is the push you need.

I know D you don't want to return to work f/t, but sadly for the short term this may be the only option, short term stress, for long term gain............i'm not pretending it will be easy but when would it be????? You are lucky enough to have a fairly well paid job with a decent pension, sadly as NIM has found out, they are few and far between.

Sometime we all need to make HUGE sacrifices to enable our families to move on.

If you (D) want to work p/t or even not at all then NIM needs to retrain or this will NEVER be possible.

The other option of course is, D returns to work full time and NIM becomes a stay at home dad.

There are options out there for you both, but they are hard ones :-(

TPA xxx

wendz86

Nim - I don't think you are selfish. This is what you want to do and it will benefit your family in a long run but you are obviously both going to have to sacrifice a lot for it to happen.

On the childcare front, if she can go to a uni nursery that sounds good and she wouldn't have to be in all day everyday then I am guessing? Poppy goes 4 days a week but when OH is one early or night he picks her up early and they get to spend some time together which is nice.

Hope you all had a nice weekend. Ours was quite quiet , went shopping and got my wedding jewellary and some sandals to wear in the evening. Also did some gradening yesterday which poppy loved.

starnac

Do you mind if I add my two pennies worth here?

This is something that you both need to think long and hard about and I know you will. You will both have to make compromises and sacrifices. You need to think about those now and decide if they are worth it.

For example. Dinah I know you would like your children close together but does this really matter? Is this because of your health or just personal preference? (I'm not actually looking for answers this is for the two of you to answer privately) if its personal preference then maybe put it back for a while.

Also NIM will be working long hours. NIM could you really cope with being away from your family so much? Leaving before they are up and possibly not coming home til after they are in bed? Dinah could you cope with bringing Grace up on your own for the majority of the time? Running the house and living on a reduced wage while also working yourself possibly.

Also Dinah I know you don't want to go back to work full time but it may be necessary. Unfortunately money does make the world go round. It is a necessity in life and if working full time and putting Grace in nursery is how it has to be then that's the best decision for you at this time.

All of this is hard. And guilt will feature a lot in the future. Guilt over not spending enough time together, guilt for working, guilt for leaving Grace at nursery. Guilt is a way of life for parents. I know I constantly berate myself for being the worst mum in the world and if you ask any of the mums (or dads) on here I'm sure they will all say the same.

I wish you both all the best for the future whatever you decide. I will keep you both in my prayers over the next couple of weeks while you make some very difficult decisions. Good luck x