Is there a place for private parking enforcement?

spacey2012

taffy056 wrote: »

Do you think issuing pieces of paper stuck on a windscreen is legal ?

Perfectly legal, if it forms an invoice, I can invoice you for reading this, legally !
I can not make you pay it, the choice is yours.
The gap between the two is where the fake ticket scam operates.

edward123

s555 wrote: »

Why should he have to buy a parking post?

He doesnt have to. Its a suggestion and an option for him as it solves this issue over his parking space. And because life's not always fair and to expect otherwise is to expect the impossible.

It's his land and people parking on it without authority are in the wrong. If there was a penalty for this, they likely wouldn't do it.

Probably but a post would be easier solution as giving a private citizen the legal right to penalise another would mean a change in law. Possible but not likely at all. So forget that option.

I don't have to buy a front door lock in order for someone stealing from my house to be breaking the law. I buy a front door lock as a condition of my insurance.

If you didnt have insurance would you have a lockless door? I doubt it. Its easier to have a locked door than have someone walk in and break the Law and all the hassle that will bring you as the homeowner/tenant.

The_Slithy_Tove

Guys_Dad wrote: »

Before anyone accuses me of being a Perky-clone, I am not at all. I got clamped earlier this year by National Clamps when I was going upstairs to the 3rd floor of a friend's flat to get a visitor's permit and by the time I walked back down, Jed Clampit had done his worst. Had to pay to avoid a tow.

Have you started legal procedings to get your money back? They clamp was almost certainly unlawful, so you should jointly sue the clamping company, the clamper himself and, most importantly (as they are the only ones with assets worth talking about), the management company.

TrickyWicky

There is definitely a need for PPC enforcement however the current problem is that PPCs as they are now, simply use it as a way of trying to get rich quick. They don't actually care about solving the problem or managing it reasonably because all they care about is the money.

The problem is that land owners will not pay for enforcement. This puts PPCs in the position of trying to raise revenue through parking charge notices - pretty much their only source of income unless they run a P&D car park.

I don't like the way PPCs currently operate. It stinks. The 'fine' amounts are too high, too extortionate and they'll try to pretend that they can do anything they want legally and that there is nothing you can do to stop them (as NCP did taking someones car for the previous owner refusing to pay their 'invoices' - and they've just lost a case in court over it).

The way they need to operate is with a genuine desire to solve a problem. Realistic 'fine' amounts that are inline with local authorities and to accept that they provide a service instead of trying to get rich quick.

I quite like FlashPark if I'm honest. They don't hand out PCNs or inspect vehicle permits etc. They let their clients do it themselves. The client uploads the photos and the registration etc and then FlashPark will send the PCN and handle it from there. That puts FlashPark in the position of being unable to hold the motorist to ransom for any trivial thing like most PPCs. I've got to admit.. if I got a PCN from them I'd probably pay it (or some of it) just because I prefer their way of working over other PPCs.

TrickyWicky

ManxRed wrote: »

So, if the landowner really does value the non-abuse of the car park, why not either (1) install a barrier? Or (2) pay the PPC for the service of managing the car park, and set the parking charges fairly at amounts representative of actual losses?

Parkeon gear costs in excess of £150k for a set of 5 barriers and POFs to go with it. Add VAT plus and you're looking at a significant amount that most landowners may not be able to raise.

I agree with your second point however many landowners still wouldn't be able to afford that either. I do think however that those who can't should only be allowed to use PCNs to pay for the installation of such equipment.

ManxRed

This plus a bloke wouldn't cost £150k.

taffy056

Guys_Dad wrote: »

1 Each parking area has room for 4 cars and 1 post would not work.
2 Not neighbour's car. Owner of car unknown.
3 Sounds like you support Free parking anywhere, anytime.

Before anyone accuses me of being a Perky-clone, I am not at all. I got clamped earlier this year by National Clamps when I was going upstairs to the 3rd floor of a friend's flat to get a visitor's permit and by the time I walked back down, Jed Clampit had done his worst. Had to pay to avoid a tow.

I am simply saying that there are often 2 sides to consider.

In answer to your post

1) buy more than 1 post
2) put a friendly note on the windscreen asking them politely not to park there
3) no idea what you mean, parking in most supermarket and retail areas are free. So if you think this should be chargeable speak your mind

s555

ManxRed wrote: »

So, if the landowner really does value the non-abuse of the car park, why not either (1) install a barrier? Or (2) pay the PPC for the service of managing the car park, and set the parking charges fairly at amounts representative of actual losses?

Option 2 comes at a cost to the car park owner, but hey, remember they actually place a value in keeping miscreants out. So they won't mind, eh?

So why so they perpetuate a business model that involves the car park owner getting the service free of charge, and the PPC making all their profits from the drivers, a lot of them breaking no rules at all. Why let the car park owner who is the one who values the spaces let innocent drivers fund this?

You're talking out of your *rse, while you're quite happy to call us clever dicks with Google.

If only you had two brain cells of your own to rub together you might be able to see the true picture of what is going on here, and not simply paint us as the villains, and the ones who could potentially cause 'ensuing anarchy' by simply pointing out to the public how they are being conned by scammers with no moral code and no qualms whatsoever of targeting as many people as they can, including disabled and elderly drivers by lying and mis-stating people's true legal position.

Idiot. Or Troll. Its one of those two, anyway.

As an "idiot" I must have forgotten the post I made where I agreed with the current model and defended it.

Or, you are the idiot and have missed my point entirely. Which I will summarise in simple terms.

There is a need for enforceable parking restrictions on private land. That does not mean the system has to be run by crooks or bear any similarity to the systems described on this forum.

I do not see a barrier being any more enforceable than a letter in the post. What happens when you get to the barrier and you do not agree with the charge? Force your way through or claim false imprisonment, I'm sure the law will back you up in either and soon as the googlers find that out, it stops working.

edward123

ManxRed wrote: »

This plus a bloke wouldn't cost £150k.

I have a mate who used to make body building equipment. They were great and so cheap compared to the commercial options. Why, I think he could make something like that and fit it for less than a grand!

TrickyWicky

ManxRed wrote: »

This plus a bloke wouldn't cost £150k.

No you're right however the HR dept, the Health and Safety, the pension, the employer liability insurance, the staff cover for leave etc.. it all adds up. You've clearly never had to work inside parking to know about these issues and from your POV it's all simple. The reality is that it isn't and there is more to it (unfortunately). Then you'll also need someone there overnight or on call.. thats a higher hourly rate.. plus a shed with heating for him to sit in, plus protective clothing..

Just the bloke on the barrier and the small HR dept could take the bill to over £50k per year. In 3 years you'll have paid the same as a set of automated barriers that will last for at least 10 years. Lets not forget the barrier man will need a colleague - so if one goes sick there is still one at work to let people in and out!

Some car parks have a padlock on the gate and give their clients a key for it but that doesn't work either because you'll always get the odd few who are too lazy to shut it behind themselves

I'm not saying I disagree with you Manx, I'm just saying its not as simple as you or I would like it to be and realistically you have to look at the other costs of running a car park barrier system.

Like you I would prefer barriers on all PPC car parks but in reality many of them simply can't afford to do it.