best wood Pellet store / Hopper?

theballboy

Hi, im getting a biomass wood pellet boiler installed but am also considering buying a 3.5tonne hopper for long term storage and automated feeding.

Can anyone point me in the direction of where I can purchase one as I want to compare the price against quotes from the MCS registered installers. (might purchase and install myself if cheaper)


Also, what can be down with my existing oil tank (plastic one) and burner. Can they be sold for scrappage? Thanks

theballboy

oh well
see what the installers can offer

SEE

http://www.pelletsworld.co.uk/WoodPelletStorage.htm

http://www.grantuk.com/products/wood-pellet-condensing-boilers/siting-and-maintenance/

Just Google for what you need.

grahamc2003

Sorry I can't help you Ballboy, but while others who can are thinking about it, perhaps you could help me? I'm thinking of having a pellet boiler too - I wonder if you have any info on what you based your decision on/make of burner/choice of installer etc etc just to get me started. Thanks.

[Deleted User]

http://www.woodpeckerenergy.co.uk/

our stove
http://www.mcz.it/en/p123-musa.html

You need to work out what heating capacity you need and if you are going to install it inside the house or in an outbuilding

we use 10 kg bags and one bag presently lasts us 3 days at 3 hours per day. The house is eco and very well insulated. This heats the house plus hot water. If we get severe prolonged cold ie minus 6 day and night then I expect we will use one bag per day

lovesgshp

There have just been some new safety warnings coming out about wood pellet storage, so well worth reading.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/safetybulletins/co-wood-pellets.htm
http://www.hetas.co.uk/hse-issue-wood-pellet-safety-notice/

theballboy

grahamc2003 wrote: »

Sorry I can't help you Ballboy, but while others who can are thinking about it, perhaps you could help me? I'm thinking of having a pellet boiler too - I wonder if you have any info on what you based your decision on/make of burner/choice of installer etc etc just to get me started. Thanks.

grahamc2003 wrote: »

Sorry I can't help you Ballboy, but while others who can are thinking about it, perhaps you could help me? I'm thinking of having a pellet boiler too - I wonder if you have any info on what you based your decision on/make of burner/choice of installer etc etc just to get me started. Thanks.

I've done quite a bit of research to date. The whole thing has been borne out of the fact that we are spending £2200 + a year on oil and bottom line is that it's too much and something needs to be done. Started looking at a multi fuel stove and having it plumbed (wet system) to heat the rads and water but it all worked out at about the same sort of spend but add in the initial outlay of £2500

So then I came across the wood pellet option. I'm in Northern Ireland so I can benefit from the £2500 interim heat payment. Then the payment scheme launching in summer 2013

Iv had a heat loss calculation done on the house to enable m calculate the size of boiler required and what tonnage of pellets I should need over the year.

The boilers Iv looked at so far are

Austrian (Big money)
Kwb £15k
Froiling £11k
Viessman £12k
Guntamatic £11k
Herz £11-12k (Czech)
These are prob best ones. Very reliable and automated. If you can afford it they're the ones to go for. The prices I've been quoted include installation and commissioning.

All the boilers I'm looking will need to be installed by an mcs registered installers. This is a pre-requisite to avail of the heat premium payment and the rhi payment when it launches. The talk in the industry at the minute is that the rhi will probably be linked to boiler output. Ie 15kw or 25kw. For me at around 25kw I'm hoping for a £600 to £700 annual payment (will not be based on how much u paid for the boiler so a £4k boiler will receive the same payment as a £15k boiler.
My research has suggested that indeed the higher priced boilers will most likely give more years of service. Prob 20 years instead of 10 for a budget one. However that made me think then. What's the difference? £6k for a budget boiler which lasts 10 years or £12-15k for 20 years. Ill maybe take my chances on a budget one and hope that it delivers more than 10

I think the difference between budget and higher priced boilers are these

Compensation.
The Austrian ones don't believe in this as a principle. Some argue that the process causes acid to accrue and destroy the boiler from the inside hence shortening the life whereas the budget conscious boilers will generally use this process.

Automation
The Austrian ones are highly automated and are almost all self cleaning (apart from emptying the ash). But in saying that most of the other budget ones are semi automated now, maybe cranking a handle 3 or 4 times to clear baffler etc

Experience
The Scandinavians have been using these systems for ages and have perfected both the functionality and reliability of them. They really know their stuff
The problem with the uk and Irish ones is that they are relatively new to the game. Most of them come from backgrounds in oil or gas boilers (firebird / grant) Some are brand new startups (gee). I have to say I'd be wary of the start ups because you can't be sure how long they will be in business for and how long they will have available parts. For example, the oil boiler that's in our house when bought new is a "gerkoss". Irish firm that peaked in the boom and bust in the bust ( after setting a few sites on fire with their dodgy boilers). I needed a flu recently which was unobtainable

Anyway these are the ones I'm considering at the moment

Ponast (Czech) this will run around £8-£9 but includes a buffer tank
The buffer tank is a hot debate though. Yes there are many boilers out there that can run fine without one but it means they must fire up and down quite often which reduces their efficiency. Heating a buffer tank of 800litres for our home to draw from when needed is much more efficient and will both prolong the life of the boiler (theoretically) and burn less pellets. Problem comes in the summer when that tank is full and your thermostats arnt calling for heat. It's not needed etc
The boiler is self modulating so will adjust itself to meet the demands and run as efficiently as it can by adjusting its output. The kpu 21 I'm looking at can run I think from 16 right up to 28kw depending on need

Grant. (Spira boiler)
This is an Irish firm who are well known for their oil / combi boilers. They recently won an award for the newly developed "condensing" wood pellet boiler. Highly efficient figures quoted of 97% due to using the heat released in gases through the flu. Many installers will tell you they are a great firm to work with and produce good boilers. The owner himself (multimillionaire) is always
involved in the designing etc. he's a passionate engineer and that's how he sees himself ("running around the factory with the !!!! hanging outta his trousers getting his hands dirty" was a recent quote) leaning towards them at the minute

Gee (slimpel 25)
Another Irish firm (but only in business for about 4 years) there boiler was designed from scratch (not borrowed or copied) is semi cleaning and 94% efficient (their own figures). I can have this installed and commisioned by an mcs registered installer for £3200 after taking the grant off.

Firebird

Mcz red compact
Big player in the pellet stove market and have food reputation all round

Greenflame ( by trianco)
Trianco are a British firm who have a strong and long reputation in the heating industry for going on 80years. They have either an indoor or outdoor model. The outdoor model can directly replace your oil boiler and has a relatively small footprint too

That's an issue for people. Space. If you have a purpose built boiler room that you want to put the boiler in you would need to check out your sizes carefully. You really have to plan where these things are going to be situated and how you want to run them. Most have built in hoppers of varying sizes between 60-120kg capacity. Obviously the bigger the hopper the less often you need to fill it. And how do you intend to fill it. Will you be using bagged pellets? Refilling every other day possibly

I discounted the large storage idea at first but then did the calculations on the pellet pricing. 1ton bagged =£250 average. 1ton blown in to large 3.5 ton storage - £195 per ton. That's a huge difference. Given that ill most likely be burning 8ton a year that's a £400 difference per year! So that's why I'm looking at the storage possibilities at the minute. Maybe £1.5k extra for a 3.5ton storage option but itll def pay for itself in a few years. For some people its the hassle of having to refill all the time manually with bags where thr store is automated (fed by auger) but inthink id be more confident with the bags. Large hoppers can be prone to damp. And that's when it all goes pear shaped. If moisture gets in. Augers become jammed, boilers run inefficiently and smoke up and develop problems etc. people will tell you that their storage is damp proof but I'm realistic. I live in Northern Ireland. The weather is !!!!!. It's generally always !!!!!. It generally always damp.

The things you need to educate yourself on and ask questions about are these
How long does the company making the boiler guarantee parts to be available for?
What's thd warranty like and does it include labour

Does the boiler have burn back protection? (which most should have)
What level of mantainence is involved in cleaning?
Does it need a buffer tank?
Is there an option to add a solar thermal store at some point? (which I want to do)
Does the boiler have lambda control?
Is it self modulating (adjust its output to meet demands and efficiency?
Will your installer perform a heat loss calculation and estimate the tonnage required for your system?
Does system have smart phone or web functionality?

Remember at the end of the day, don't believe everything they tell you, they want to sell you the product their attached too. Ask them all questions and you'll see the different response you'll get.

I hope this info helps. I know it might be a bit much but I can be a bit of a nut when it comes to researching something and trying to find the most suitable product.

If any others start to chime in on this thread then ill keep folk updated on the quotes that roll in on different systems and which I decide to go with.

DanRichards

I started a thread about this a while ago. We've had our MCZ boiler for 3 months now. Everythings great about it, and if i can offer any advice, it would be to go for it!

Hopper wise, we decided against one. I think we were quoted about 2k for the grant 3.5 tonne, but make sure you check what savings youll make between a pallet delivery of bagged pellets and a blown delivery. Remember that you wont ever be getting a delivery of 3.5 tonnes as you wont let the pellets run out before ordering a new delivery. So make sure you get quotes for blown deliveries of 3 tonnes.
We worked out that the savings weren't enough to spend 2k on a hopper. We have our boiler in the garage with a 60kilo hopper and i simply chuck a bag or 2 in every morning before work to keep it topped up. Simple!

Good luck.

lostinrates

Hmmm.


We are in the process of having a wood pellet boiler fitted and ATM I feel very sour about the whole thing.


We do have buffer tanks on ours, and the hopper should last a week we are told. we have a large old house and our estimated use is nine tonnes a year of pellet, but this very favourable compared to oil.

However, installation has been very laboured and over a few weeks and while the boiler appears to be working its not actually giving out any heat! We have a plumber and the supplier here today because we are meant to be connecting it to our old rads (it's been connected to four new ones) and yet we haven't seen it work yet.

Fwiw, we put in a fair bit of research as did our

theballboy

So is yours the mcz red boiler? I'm def interested in them but the guy seemed to be talking more about their wet stoves so ill have to chase it up with him. How much was the actual boiler itself (excluding installation etc)

I have no problem with manually sticking a couple of bags in every other day. Plus I'm nearly guaranteed no moisture issues that way

theballboy

lostinrates wrote: »

Hmmm.


We are in the process of having a wood pellet boiler fitted and ATM I feel very sour about the whole thing.


We do have buffer tanks on ours, and the hopper should last a week we are told. we have a large old house and our estimated use is nine tonnes a year of pellet, but this very favourable compared to oil.

However, installation has been very laboured and over a few weeks and while the boiler appears to be working its not actually giving out any heat! We have a plumber and the supplier here today because we are meant to be connecting it to our old rads (it's been connected to four new ones) and yet we haven't seen it work yet.

Fwiw, we put in a fair bit of research as did our

Sorry to hear your had such a hassle. Really shouldn't be like that when your dropping so much cash on a new system. Definitely disheartening

A a matter of interest can you advise which boiler you decided to go with and why?

Mcs registered installer?