My 4 year olds crying & tantrums fits - I don't know how much more I can take....

fsdss

drivingmeinsane wrote: »

The problem is her constant crying and winging and her attitude towards me. She throws things at me, she spat at my husband the other day and she shouts at me all the time - and it is constant. She woke this morning at 7am, I gave her a cuddle and she told me she was cold and wanted her duvet (downstairs - I was ironing) I said no and to cover up with the blanket (sheet) she had bought down - this warranted a 10 minute crying fit as it was not good enough and wanted a duvet. She went off and changed her pyjamas into those from the bottom of the draw that are too small, she had a crying fit over this. Did she want breakfast - No, fine I won't do it then, a screaming fit that she wanted breakfast, then her chair was not close enough to the table, another crying fit despite the fact it is a lightweight chair she can move herself - I was in the kitchen making breakfast. I sent her to her room to calm down and called her down after 10 minutes - that was another little whinge as she did not want it, I said fine I'll throw it away and then she came down for it.

we have to go get ready for school in a minute, she'll have another crying fit over the uniform as the dress is 'too baggy' and her socks are 'too big' she expects her clothes to fit perfect for her else we get another screaming fit for 5 minutes.

This is just typical morning and I love when she is at school for 2 1/2 hours as I get some peace. Horrible though it seems.

I am at the end of my tether, my husband calls and always ask how is it and she'll be screaming in the background for something or another as she has not been giving it the minute she asks. All the time it is because something is not going her way, the way she wants it at the time she wants it. I know all kids are like this - but all day? I have been at home with them since birth and I try my best and if it was not for my son I would realy think that this mothering stuff was not for me as I really cannot cope with the constant crying and whinging all day but I have tried everything to make it better that I can think of. I am now wondering if it is normal for her to be like this or whether I should get help. She can be perfectly fine which makes me think otherwise, it is just when things are not going the way she wants them - like a 2 year old but I would have thought she should have grown out of this by now. Is this my fault?

If she is dpoing Arts and Crafts, which she loves, she will sit there all day but will not go outside and play at all and if I send her outside after 10 minutes the crying starts as she wants this, that or the other and if I do not drop what I am doing immidiately it starts again. however, I am here because I have a house to run and I still have to do things like make dinner and do the housework which means I can't drop stuff and do it the minute she asks. I work from home but do most of the work stuff in the evening, sure there will be the occassional time that I do a little work in the day and gode forbid if I try and use the internet but most of it is done while they are at school in the mornings so that side does not interfere with them so why do I feel so bad the minute I sit and want to read the paper or watch the news - is a mother not allowed to do these things.

I am on the brink of tears as I write this mail as I am far beyond trying to work out how I deal with her behaiour. I try ignoring it but after a few hours of listening to screaming it is going right through me. I do feel it best to ignore her while she is having the tantrums but it is difficult and I will end up shouting at her because I can''t even speak to her as she is screaming - I know this is not right and I do not feel good doing it but I would rather scream that hit and short of screaming what else can I do to make myself heard over the crying. If I walk away she will still be crying an hour later for whatever it was she wanted so ignoring does not work. When we have to get ready for school and she is throwing a major wobbler over her dress. On Tuesday I just said fine, don't wear it, she took it off, I let her get on with it and about 10 minutes before due to go said we was leaving and then she will get ready - however, between the space of getting ready and then saying I was going she was upstairs screaming over the damn dress and I have to listen to this so it is easier said than done to let her get on with it. Nothing stops her unless she gets to wear what she wants to wear when she wants and how she wants.

Please someone tell me that this behaviour will stop soon as I don't know how much more I can take. I wish I could afford full time day care so I could just get rid of her for the day and that is not right. I don't have anyone that helps with childcare except of course my husband who is working and my sister who pops around for half hour here and there - everyone else is working. I do not expect anyone to look after my kids - don't get me wrong - I don't go out, I am not that interested in it, we just go out if something really good is on at the cinema - I have been there and done that, I get my break when the kids are sleeping and I am a mum, they come first and I do not begrudge this at all, it is just my daughters behaviour that I am past coping with and I don't want it turning me into a vile cow.

I loved the idea of having a daughter (In fact I dreading having a boy) but I feel I am slowly starting to hate her and I don't want to be like this. I dread everything from getting up in the morning to going to bed. We always end the night with story time, 2 stories each but she has started having tantrums at bedtime and I have stopped her stories and just read them to my son and send her to bed. I feel bad doing this at bedtime but how else so I punish tantrums at bathtime. I have tried sticker charts but they do not work.

I am asking for advice really and on whether anyone knows how long this will last for. I don't want my days to be filled with hate and dread of doing somthing like getting dressed. Which is where we are off to now and it is the worst part of the morning. Please can someone offer me some advice or put my mind at rest. Thank you.

firstly i have not read all the advice responded so dont know if i am repeating...

i am a trained (and practicing) behaviour management specialist of children and teenagers (0-15)(for my sins). and i come across parents with situations like how your feeling every day and its very common to feel like you do (so your post indicates that your feelings are normal) and i have been in this situation myself at some point.

all i can offer you is advise (which is the same that supernanny or similar would advise - as its the same principles)
anyway during your post i can pick out behaviour and responses
1. she wants something
2. if she doesnt get it she screams and cries or even spits
3. she usually gets what she wants depending on your tolerance levels at that particuar time.

if this is correct then she has learned that in order to "gain something that she wants" then by applying a behaviour to ensure that she gets it (i.e screaming) she might get her own way - so obviously she will attempt this every time until she gets your full attention and her "reward".

have a look at her and try and identify what she wants to achieve with these behaviours. if you remove the reward (i.e blanket)and confiscate such items for a period of time then she will quickly learn that screaming will not get her the things that she wants. but you need to keep consitency and a calm head

give her loads of praise for the good behaviours and this will encourage those to be repeated.

she's really displaying normal behaviour of a child - its just difficult to manage them in the right manner when your stressed. (i've even struggled with this when my one was a toddler) but it will work out in the end.

in order to calm her down when crying / screaming it is very important to keep a low and calm voice and not to shout at her. (its very difficult to continue screaming shouting at someone when they are so calm.)

i hope this helps a little and i wish you the very best of luck

lynzpower

getting it sorted,

what sort of therapy was it?
#

liney

My littley is nearly 3 and was going through a screetching stage. I found that if i talked to him very quietly, almost in a whisper he calms down. We have a 'No shouting or Scweeming Mommy' in his own words, bless.

Can you bribe your daughter with a Saturday or Sunday afternoon out weekly, while your husband does something with your son? They will both get individual attention and she might not be so jelous of her brother. Remember, she is only jelous because she loves you. )

gettingitsorted

lynzpower wrote: »

getting it sorted,

what sort of therapy was it?
#

She was reffered by my health visitor to the family and childrens mental health unit and we were then reffered by them after an assesment to see a child psychologist.

squibbs25

I started 'fining' my dd when she hit and kicked her older brother .
I make HER take 50p or 20p out and put it in an envelope with her name on.
Then at the end of the week i show her how much money she's lost!
This got to her when she realised that she didnt have enough money to buy her Dora Collection (part 3).

I did/do give her little jobs to do so she could/can 'earn' her money back.
For us it works doing it this way.

The last resort is to send her to her bedroom and close the door (which she hates) and will cheerfully scream for at least 10 - 15 mins.
I do go in after 4 mins or so (she is 4.5). Then agian another 4 mins later. Then if she is still screaming i go downstairs and turn the music up!!!! (for another 5 mins)
Eventually she will calm down.

As regards the clothes issue for school, (i've had this one with dd as well)
Both me and ds were ready to leave (10 mins earlier than normal, to give dd 'time' to change her mind ), told dd "be good, see you when i get home from work!" Bent down to kiss her, When she realised i was going without her, she started to create, so i explianed to her that she couldnt go to nursery as she wasnt in her nursery uniform and they wouldnt let her in.
She soon run upstairs to get dressed.
Now she's the first one ready every morning :rotfl:

I know what works for one child doesnt necessarily work for another, but i found being consistant in how you handle a situation can change it to your advantage.
Please dont give in to her for an easy life, as the demands only get worse and the tantrums harder to deal with.

Good luck and let us know how you get on.

Squibbs xxx

Bun

I hope you are feeling a little better. I have this sometimes with my son, who is three in a fortnight. As in for whole weeks, usually coinciding with a growth spurt, change of routine (he's just gone to the top group in nursery) etc. He is, I think, quite bright, and speaks very well indeed. He knows after the tantrums that they are bad but sometimes doesn't seem to know how to deal with them. And other times he is just a little sod bless him. An hour and twenty minute screaming fit about a lolly is probably his best effort so far.

To try and avoid most of the day to day ones, I give him as much choice as he can handle, as most of it is striving for independence, which it sounds as if your daughter is doing. He chooses with me what he wears, within the realms of practicality (although pants and wellies round the house do have a certain je ne ce qois) . Obvously you can't do this with school uniform, but can she choose hair slides/hairstyle or something? Other things that spark screaming that he can choose are straps on or off in the buggy, he can be in it, walk beside it etc. Often if I offer him five choices of snack the one he's set his heart on and I haven't got is forgotten and he gets what I wish to give him anyway. On the things he has to do, we do try and sweeten them sometimes with things to do afterwards, a chosen toy to hold while we're doing it etc.

Most of his punishments are being ignored which he hates (whining cuts through you doesn't it?) so as Becles says, I can't hear him when he's whining,
coming home from an activity (rather than not going in the first place - explain to her and the people you are with what you will do in advance), and calming down in his room. Most of my focus is on him becoming calm, because without that he will not understand anything about the behaviour. We always use the same warnings and phrases, and he has a choice of whether to stop or take punishment. He does slap and hit and kick, so we have a 'both being gentle' rule and no tolerance - you apologise or go to your room. He has taken to the room well, the naughty chair didn't work with him.
Some days it works, other days it's a battle to do every little thing and I could blub. I'm always much calmer when it's a tiredness thing, rather when he knows which buttons to press to wind me up, so in this case I try to safely put as much space between me and him as possible! A lot of it is to do with picking your battles and weighing up your personalities. With him he detests going on the potty if there is nothing to go in it. He will get it when he needs it and use it. So with him, trying him on it on regular intervals means a tantrum. So I stopped, and he's fine. Also I tend to go over the point twelve times (funnily enough DH agreed with that one) so any explanations are short and to the point.

One thing you are working on which will help is only punishing the one with the bad behaviour. Also if charts don't work, one of my friends had marbles in a jar. If good, a marble or two go in. If bad a marble comes out. This has worked with her very whiny son, and also means that the good is not overshadowed by the bad. A certain number of marbles can be cashed in for a piece of tat (sorry, purchase of their choice), or a trip or something. I am going to start doing this with DS when he is 3 and make it look a really cool thing to do now he's bigger! His tantrums could be such that it would overshadow a whole day out for example, but if he needs positive feedback the rest of the time otherwise there's no point in being good at all.

Please do try Toddler taming as mentioned before, it helped me out immensely and a lot of the above is Dr Greens. (I think that's his name).

Nicki

Don't have all the answers and it sounds like you're having a miserable time. Some sneaky mind games worked a bit for me when my kids were little. Eg choices which weren't really choices - "are you going to have your bath now, or after Tweenies is over?", "do you want peas or sweetcorn". Also giving as much independence as you can - eg letting them choose their own clothes. This might help with the tantrums over things which are a bit big for her, as she can choose not to put these on. You will need of course to put the winter clothes away in the summer and vice versa to ensure sensible choices are made, and to be relaxed about how she looks. My son's teacher used to laugh her socks off at some of his combos, but he soon got the hang of this! Praise for things which have been done well helps, as does letting them know in advance what is planned for the day, and when, and giving warnings in advance before things are about to happen - eg "we'll be leaving in 10 minutes", followed by "we're going in 5 minutes", then "can you get your shoes on, because its time to go"

For tantrums, you could try copying what she is doing (best done at home!) to see if this shocks her out of it. Seeing an adult lying on the floor screaming is an eye-opener to most kids! Otherwise, time out for the length of time of their age, is a sanity saver. If the noise is overwhelming, put some headphones on and listen to music.

You can also get some good books aimed at this age group about managing difficult emotions, and strateges to deal with them, short of hitting and fighting. There is a very nice one called "I feel Angry" which talks about how it physically feels to feel angry, the things which might trigger this, and things which you can do as a child to get over the feeling in a way that is acceptable. There is another in the same series called "I feel jealous" which might help with her behaviour with her brother.

Finally. my absolute sanity saver, was a cast-iron bedtime regime, where all the kids were bathed, stories read and in bed for the night by no later than 7pm, leaving me and DH a good 4 hours grown up time to unwind and enjoy the evening! It is very important to look after your own wellbeing, because, as you are finding out, if you are feeling stressed and unhappy the behaviour only gets harder to deal with.

Carmina_Piranha_3

i had one like that at age 4 - everyone had said the terrible 2's would finish before he went to school but no ... a couple of other children were still pretty foul at that age. they all grew out of it at around age 5 - that might be something to look forward to

you might find her going to school full time in september gives you more breathing space to recover from her screaming, leaving you calmer and more able to hug her and feel that you do actually love her. until you actually have a full time screamer it's difficult to understand the assault on your nervous system. it goes through you and puts your teeth on edge. when my son was screeching for hours at a time i wouldn't be able to eat or drink and i would get diarrhoea caused by the stress. you end up worn down by the stress and it leaves you too emotionally tired to see a way out.

what hours does your husband work? could he take part in the bath/bedtime routine? does he tell her off or punish her?

it seems like a small age gap but your children are different. my husband and i sometimes split up (for an hour or so, not literally split up lol!) and spend time with one child each, to make sure they are getting individual attention and don't always have to do activities that are suited to both.

i had an 11 month gap before my sister arrived and i hated her. we were always together, always 'the girls', shared a room, had the same toys, had the bath and bedtime together etc. and even had to have the same friends, so if somebody came to call for me i wasn't allowed out unless my sister came too. i don't think either parent ever noticed i was a separate person. i think it might have made us hate each other a little less during childhood if we had occasionally been treated as individuals.

i don't know if it's feasible but could she watch TV or look at books while you bath your son and read to him, then have her bath a bit later and go to bed maybe half an hour after her brother? i know it seems like you can't reward her for being horrible but a story at bedtime is so important, and feeling that she is important to you and loved. at the age of 4 my son had a star chart and some things would be taken away/not earned if he didn't get enough stars but the bedtime story was sacred - he always had that.

as an aside - we saw a behaviour psychologist when he was three years and and he told me to do less housework :T

Bun

I hope you are feeling a little better. I have this sometimes with my son, who is three in a fortnight. As in for whole weeks, usually coinciding with a growth spurt, change of routine (he's just gone to the top group in nursery) etc. He is, I think, quite bright, and speaks very well indeed. He knows after the tantrums that they are bad but sometimes doesn't seem to know how to deal with them. And other times he is just a little sod bless him. An hour and twenty minute screaming fit about a lolly is probably his best effort so far.

To try and avoid most of the day to day ones, I give him as much choice as he can handle, as most of it is striving for independence. He chooses with me what he wears, within the realms of practicality (although pants and wellies round the house do have a certain je ne ce qois) . Obvously you can't do this with school uniform, but can she choose hair slides/hairstyle or something? Other things that spark screaming that he can choose are straps on or off in the buggy, he can be in it, walk beside it etc. Often if I offer him five choices of snack the one he's set his heart on and I haven't got is forgotten and he gets what I wish to give him anyway. On the things he has to do, we do try and sweeten them sometimes with things to do afterwards, a chosen toy to hold while we're doing it etc.

Most of his punishments are being ignored which he hates (whining cuts through you doesn't it?) so as Becles says, I can't hear him when he's whining,
coming home from an activity (rather than not going in the first place - explain to her and the people you are with what you will do in advance), and calming down in his room. Most of my focus is on him becoming calm, because without that he will not understand anything about the behaviour. We always use the same warnings and phrases, and he has a choice of whether to stop or take punishment. He does slap and hit and kick, so we have a 'both being gentle' rule and no tolerance - you apologise or go to your room. He has taken to the room well, the naughty chair didn't work with him.
Some days it works, other days it's a battle to do every little thing and I could blub. I'm always much calmer when it's a tiredness thing, rather when he knows which buttons to press to wind me up, so in this case I try to safely put as much space between me and him as possible!

ruthyjo

Hi - you've had lots of long and helpful posts which I'll try not to duplicate.

A lot of people might disagree with me but I'd say another important thing with little ones is to pick your battles carefully. Small children do whinge and complain and test boundaries all the time. I've tried not to get into confrontation with my children over issues that don't really matter and save my energies for the things that are a big deal. You mention in your first post your daughter wanting you to push her chair at breakfast when she could do it herself. You later talk about her punching her brother on the trampoline. I'm inclined to think I would push a four year old up to the table at breakfast if that's what they want and save my energy for the discussion about how they should treat their little brother.

You also talk about your daughter being uncomfortable with her baggy school uniform/outfit for school. It's not very moneysaving maybe, but I think little children do get really sensitive to physical sensation and really do hate and feel uncomfortable in certain clothes. This is another battle I would not bother fighting - dress her in a way she feels comfortable, even if it means some clothes you have bought are wasted or have to be saved 'til she has grown a bit, and you will be less stressed when it comes to dealing with the behaviour that really matters.

I'm not trying to criticise you - you sound like a great mum and you obviously really care about your daughter or you wouldn't be posting. I've just been in the situation myself with one of my children where every little thing became a battle and it was only when I'd coached myself to care only about the behaviour that really mattered and not get my buttons pressed by every little thing that things began to get easier. My child's fine now - you couldn't fault his behavour and there were years when I never thought I'd say that - it will get better, promise.