Taking the micky

real1314

devilivus wrote: »

IS it worth working for that, though?

I mean, it's generally accepted that a family of four who live intirely off of benefits make, maybe 40k-45k per year or so? (child tax benefits, hosing benefit etc etc)

However, what about for a single guy, say in his 20's.
What is his equivilant? Just JSA and housing benefit at a reduced flat share rate?
What does that work out too, compared to a working wage of 6.19 per hour, 35 hrs per week, out of interest?

I bet you can't actually substantiate that figure of £40-45k can you. You made it up.
"generally accepted" - what a load of twaddle.
:cool:

dandelionclock30

Its the correct way to go paying the apprentice double because you will get more out of them than if you were paying them £100 per week.
You have less chance of them trying it on time wize, doing as little as possible,not coming in, liberating things from work, running you down etc, if you pay and treat people properly.
In life you get what you pay for really, its a universal given.

Dangermac

dandelionclock30 wrote: »

Its the correct way to go paying the apprentice double because you will get more out of them than if you were paying them £100 per week.
You have less chance of them trying it on time wize, doing as little as possible,not coming in, liberating things from work, running you down etc, if you pay and treat people properly.
In life you get what you pay for really, its a universal given.

I agree, completely.

Now for the interesting bit. It's also my way of making sure that I get the wheat as opposed to the chaff. Remember my earlier point regarding supply & demand.

The best candidates/employees with the best attitude will always get there in the end. It might not be now, or even with the current employer, but it will come in the end.

I can track my employment history back to very lowly-paid jobs, and I know that I only got where I am today because I put in real effort, when there was no obvious reason to do so.

The point is that success (depending on your definition, of course) isnt always immediate. Personally, I feel that too many people want something for nothing, and fast, without putting in the hard yards.

DM

sniggings

Dangermac wrote: »

I agree, completely.

Now for the interesting bit. It's also my way of making sure that I get the wheat as opposed to the chaff. Remember my earlier point regarding supply & demand.

The best candidates/employees with the best attitude will always get there in the end. It might not be now, or even with the current employer, but it will come in the end.

I can track my employment history back to very lowly-paid jobs, and I know that I only got where I am today because I put in real effort, when there was no obvious reason to do so.

The point is that success (depending on your definition, of course) isnt always immediate. Personally, I feel that too many people want something for nothing, and fast, without putting in the hard yards.

DM

many people work hard for £6.19, in many ways, harder than those at the top, if your effort doesn't get you to the top, and lets face it, capitalism only has room for a few at the top, does that mean you should be left in the gutter, or still have a decent standard of life.

Lets take the min wage, and a single person, say he's a cleaner, which is a hard job.

full time is around £220.

rent if he is lucky is £90
council tax £20
water £10
gas+electric £20
travel costs £20
TV licence £3

he's lucky to have £60 for the rest, such as food, clothing, never mind a night out, add in a wife and one kid, then the problems really start, wife needs to work, pay for a child minder, kid does without a mother but hey we all feel good about ourselves cos we are working!

TrickyWicky

sniggings wrote: »

he's lucky to have £60 for the rest

You're kidding right? I used to work full time and have less than that left over PER MONTH!

Then you get people rubbing it in your face when you look glum with things like "Cheer up mate, it can't be that bad", "whats with the long face?" and crap like that.

Then you get slated because you won't go out at the weekend because you can't afford it.. people accuse you of being a recluse, a miserable **** etc. Then you have the other people wanting money from you just because they see it as their moral right to have it.

Always those who have money who like to slate those without it and then claim they need to work harder. I worked hard, I grafted and I got trashed for it. I quite literally busted a gut in the process and had an op for that too but does it get you any recognition for working harder than others? No. I've known plenty of lazy ****s get a helping hand up the ladder though.

Then there is the family that people expect you to turn to to help you out financially.. non existent in my case but many of the people in this thread wouldn't understand that either.

So, next time you see a guy with a long face who seems to have the weight of the world on his shoulders and works harder than most for the least appreciation, maybe you might consider actually giving him a chance. I'm talking about people like Dangermac and daedalus who seem to think that many of us just choose to be depressed, miserable and not very positive because we apparently enjoy it.

dandelionclock30

In that situation wouldnt the person get child tax credits, child benefit etc.

Daedalus

TrickyWicky wrote: »

So, next time you see a guy with a long face who seems to have the weight of the world on his shoulders and works harder than most for the least appreciation, maybe you might consider actually giving him a chance. I'm talking about people like Dangermac and daedalus who seem to think that many of us just choose to be depressed, miserable and not very positive because we apparently enjoy it.

No, we don't care for people who just wallow in self-pity. We are lucky to live in a country where resources are available to all to better themselves.

When people choose to remain on benefits than take a job because the job only pays a few quid more than you are choosing to be depressed. You seem to be implying that all people know what is best for them, they often don't.

No one says you have to be in the same underappreciated job forever, you can move on, even if it is a horizontal move to another NMW job.

sniggings

dandelionclock30 wrote: »

In that situation wouldnt the person get child tax credits, child benefit etc.

thats my point :rotfl: pay a decent wage then the tax payer wouldn't need to step in and the guy would then have something to be proud of.

TrickyWicky

Daedalus wrote: »

No, we don't care for people who just wallow in self-pity. We are lucky to live in a country where resources are available to all to better themselves.

When people choose to remain on benefits than take a job because the job only pays a few quid more than you are choosing to be depressed. You seem to be implying that all people know what is best for them, they often don't.

No one says you have to be in the same underappreciated job forever, you can move on, even if it is a horizontal move to another NMW job.

So tell me a bit about yourself then because I have this hunch that you're not at the bottom of the ladder, in fact I think you're doing pretty well for yourself. That makes you one of those hypocrites I was talking about that likes to trash those at the bottom in the worst and most desperate circumstances.

I could be wrong about you but having come across people with your sort of excuses so many times in my life, I doubt it.

Dangermac

TrickyWicky wrote: »

You're kidding right? I used to work full time and have less than that left over PER MONTH!

Then you get people rubbing it in your face when you look glum with things like "Cheer up mate, it can't be that bad", "whats with the long face?" and crap like that.

Then you get slated because you won't go out at the weekend because you can't afford it.. people accuse you of being a recluse, a miserable **** etc. Then you have the other people wanting money from you just because they see it as their moral right to have it.

Always those who have money who like to slate those without it and then claim they need to work harder. I worked hard, I grafted and I got trashed for it. I quite literally busted a gut in the process and had an op for that too but does it get you any recognition for working harder than others? No. I've known plenty of lazy ****s get a helping hand up the ladder though.

Then there is the family that people expect you to turn to to help you out financially.. non existent in my case but many of the people in this thread wouldn't understand that either.

So, next time you see a guy with a long face who seems to have the weight of the world on his shoulders and works harder than most for the least appreciation, maybe you might consider actually giving him a chance. I'm talking about people like Dangermac and daedalus who seem to think that many of us just choose to be depressed, miserable and not very positive because we apparently enjoy it.

I dont think that's what I said, or implied.

All I'm saying is that it is possible (not a guarantee) to progress your career by working hard. Sure, the occasional lucky break helps, but there are a lot of people who are blaming the system/Government/society/capitalism/etc on their inability to earn a living.

I also said that you have to combine hard work with making good career decisions, and that hard work alone isnt enough.

At the end of the day, the current economy is how it's going to be for the foreseeable. You have a choice.

- Do something about it
- Accept defeat

Your choice. That's just how it is.

Harsh? Maybe. But that's reality.

DM