Fixed Penalty Notice..... Gobsmacked!

Oli.s

You might well find that people locally have made complaints about this, maybe even the school or other parents and thats why its been targetted.

You might struggle in court if both your back tyres were on the white circle though.

We used to have a police car sat on the estate becuase of people driving the wrong way around an actual brick built roundabout because it meant they didnt have to turn the steering wheel slightly, not saying thats what the OP has done mind.

I saw a program about scottish police in the highlands, a village meeting complained about people speeding on a road through the villiage, the police set up a speed trap one morning, half the people caught were the people who had complained at the meeting, they camera crews were speaking to them after and they were most embarrased....lol

Quentin

masonsmum wrote: »

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?rls=com.microsoft:en-gb:IE-Address&oe=UTF-8&rlz=1I7ACEW_enGB428GB428&redir_esc=&q=google+maps+sorn+road+auchinleck&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x48882890495a099f:0x212ace7e11067e06,Sorn+Rd,+Auchinleck,+Cumnock+KA18+2HP&gl=uk&sa=X&ei=vPGtUJCnCqm10QXe_4Bo&ved=0CC8Q8gEwAA

This is the google map link, with the mini roundabout. I did the same journey this morning and managed it without my tyres touching the white area, when you actually think about it rather than just rushing through it. The thing that I am finding harder to accept is the policewoman getting let off even though she done the exact same thing as me!

Earlier you grumbled that buses and large vehicles do this every day, now it's because you saw the WPC get "let off".

You broke the law and got caught!

You could complain about the WPC incident though! (If you are prepared for the hassle of the complaints procedure and any possible (though unproveable) targeting in the future)

derrick

thenudeone wrote: »

The Highway code is not the law. You cannot be given a fixed penalty notice for breaking a highway code rule. The ticket has to be for a specific offence as written in an Act of Parliament or Statutory Instrument.

Partially driving over a painted mini-roundabout is not, in itself, an offence.

We need to know what offence and code was written on the ticket.

In itself no it isn't, but I think you should have a read of the Introduction and stop being pedantic:-

"Many of the rules in the Code are legal requirements, and if you disobey these rules you are committing a criminal offence. You may be fined, given penalty points on your licence or be disqualified from driving. In the most serious cases you may be sent to prison. Such rules are identified by the use of the words ‘MUST/MUST NOT’. In addition, the rule includes an abbreviated reference to the legislation which creates the offence.".

Then you will see Rule 188 uses the word MUST, which makes it a legal requirement and refers to the legislation: -

"188
Mini-roundabouts. Approach these in the same way as normal roundabouts. All vehicles MUST pass round the central markings except large vehicles which are physically incapable of doing so. Remember, there is less space to manoeuvre and less time to signal. Avoid making U-turns at mini-roundabouts. Beware of others doing this.
Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10(1) & 16(1)"


.

Sgt_Pepper_2

derrick wrote: »

In itself no it isn't, but I think you should have a read of the Introduction and stop being pedantic:-

"Many of the rules in the Code are legal requirements, and if you disobey these rules you are committing a criminal offence. You may be fined, given penalty points on your licence or be disqualified from driving. In the most serious cases you may be sent to prison. Such rules are identified by the use of the words ‘MUST/MUST NOT’. In addition, the rule includes an abbreviated reference to the legislation which creates the offence.".

Then you will see Rule 188 uses the word MUST, which makes it a legal requirement and refers to the legislation: -

"188
Mini-roundabouts. Approach these in the same way as normal roundabouts. All vehicles MUST pass round the central markings except large vehicles which are physically incapable of doing so. Remember, there is less space to manoeuvre and less time to signal. Avoid making U-turns at mini-roundabouts. Beware of others doing this.
Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10(1) & 16(1)"


.

If you had bothered to read the whole thread you would realise he corrected himself.

thenudeone wrote: »

After reading some well-informed posts, I think I am going to have to admit that I was probably wrong when I said:



Sorry.

It won't happen again:o:o

almillar

If you're in a car, a mini roundabout should be treated exactly the same as a proper one, and you don't clip the kerb in that. The reason it's a painted blob and not an island is to let large vehicles (and that's not your X5, ma'am) go over it.
The policeman was being pedantic, and shouldn't have let off the WPC.
The problem being that many people do approach them far too quickly and are able to fly through them - this is bad as it doesn't allow other people approching to work out whether they can go or not. Nevermind, of course, that you're supposed to indicate properly just like a normal roundabout! I think if people actually drove these things properly, they'd slow down a lot.

Aretnap

derrick wrote: »

Then you will see Rule 188 uses the word MUST, which makes it a legal requirement

If we're going to be pedantic, the word MUST doesn't make it a legal requirement - what makes it a legal requirement is the legislation. The Highway Code isn't the law even when it uses the word must - the legislation is the law, and the HC is just a summary of it. If there's disagreement between the two, the law trumps the Highway Code. That's why it's better to quote actual legislation rather than the Highway code.

Jamie_Carter

This is turning into a childish argument now

Joe_Horner

masonsmum wrote: »

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?rls=com.microsoft:en-gb:IE-Address&oe=UTF-8&rlz=1I7ACEW_enGB428GB428&redir_esc=&q=google+maps+sorn+road+auchinleck&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x48882890495a099f:0x212ace7e11067e06,Sorn+Rd,+Auchinleck,+Cumnock+KA18+2HP&gl=uk&sa=X&ei=vPGtUJCnCqm10QXe_4Bo&ved=0CC8Q8gEwAA

This is the google map link, with the mini roundabout. I did the same journey this morning and managed it without my tyres touching the white area, when you actually think about it rather than just rushing through it. The thing that I am finding harder to accept is the policewoman getting let off even though she done the exact same thing as me!

Thanks for the update, and it's a shame more drivers don't use this sort of incident as a reason to "go back and check".

Straightening a mini roundabout too much is a pretty minor sin in itself, but a lot of accidents are caused by an accumulation of minor sins by the various drivers involved which happen to come together in the wrong way.

It does seem a pity that the PC concerned went straight for the ticket book rather than a quiet word, because the fact you've checked today suggests that you would have been willing to listen.

Doing that and then letting the policewoman slip through, it's pretty obvious why you might feel agrieved! But try to take the positive from it - that you've had a (relatively) painless reminder to keep yer standards up - rather than dwelling too much on the unprofessional conduct of this one policeman

DaveF327

masonsmum wrote: »

when you actually think about it rather than just rushing through it.

Thanks for the info.. and your honesty.

Assuming it's this roundabout at the Corner Cafe:

then I'm afraid I'd struggle to mount a defence as there's just so much room as proved by the Corsa that illustrates the scale well. With care and accurate steering, you could get a transit van around there without touching the circle.

The four-road layout of this roundabout makes it even more essential that each driver keeps to their own side, as it's perfectly safe for drivers from opposite sides to emerge simultaneously, providing they keep apart and circle the roundabout with perfect synchronisation. If one cuts it at that moment, it endangers the other, or prevents them from proceeding when it would otherwise have been safe.

The key words you mentioned in your post are "when you actually think about it". It's every driver's duty of care on the road to think about everything that they do. "Rather than just rushing through it" suggests excess speed may have been to blame, so the police officer could use that to consider a charge of "due care and attention", which would be endorsable, so in effect you got off lightly.

I can't comment on the policewoman being let off as I don't know all the circumstances, but I can understand your frustration. That could be a matter for the IPCC.

brat

Lum wrote: »

I guess not enough people are doing 80mph on motorways any more so they have to find some other minor offence to ticket people for and push the stats up.

Hey ho.. another "crime" solved.

Fair comment on the face of it; but many mini roundabouts can be made much more dangerous by people shortcutting them (turning right before them or over them rather than round them) causing traffic approaching from the other side to have them coming into their path much more quickly than expected, from the wrong part of the roundabout. Usually the person shortcutting doesn't think he's done anything wrong, and gives the other motorists grief for crossing into his path.

It's lazy, it's potentially dangerous, and I don't think a £30 ticket is too harsh.

Perhaps we need a public information film on BBC about the correct negotiation of mini roundabouts.