EU National Entitled to Any Government Help When Moving to UK?

PippaGirl_2

I'm not at all saying that this is the case here, but what if there was DV in the relationship and the mother had run to protect her children from harm? What if she was deeply traumatised by the psychological abuse (and possible physical)? What would we be saying then? I'm just aware we only have one side of the story here and like others have stated we are coloured by our own historys and own experiences. My attenae is raised due to her fleeing the country and her keeping running, she is very frightened of something.

benefitbaby

Having come to this thread very late in the day, these are my thoughts on the benefit position...

The rules for EEA nationals have changed significantly over the years and this is relevant because you say your ex lived and worked in the UK for 15 years. Which country she is from and whether the work she did was registered or legal work will make a difference (different EEA countries have/had different rules).

With the above in mind no-one on this board will be able to give you a clear answer. If you are able to confirm which EEA country, what work and whether it was registered (if applicable e.g. A8 and A2 nationals have different rules) then an answer may be possible.

It may be that your ex has completed sufficient work to gain permanent residence rights although the length of her stay outside the UK could have extinguished these rights (when exactly did she leave?). See: http://www.cpag.org.uk/content/permanent-residence-settled

If your ex does not have permanent residency rights or has no right to reside/does not meet habitual residence test now then she still may have entitlement to benefits by arguing that Article 24(3) rights exist under the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union apply:
3. Every child shall have the right to maintain on a regular basis a personal relationship and direct contact with both his or her parents, unless that is contrary to his or her interests.

Possibly argue article 34 rights as well.

As the above shows your query is incredibly complex and I think it is almost negligent that your solicitor has failed to refer this question to a specialist in social security law, especially as incomplete or innacurate information could be detrimental to your case and the welfare of the children.

clearingout

PippaGirl wrote: »

I'm not at all saying that this is the case here, but what if there was DV in the relationship and the mother had run to protect her children from harm? What if she was deeply traumatised by the psychological abuse (and possible physical)? What would we be saying then? I'm just aware we only have one side of the story here and like others have stated we are coloured by our own historys and own experiences. My attenae is raised due to her fleeing the country and her keeping running, she is very frightened of something.

I don't think there's sufficient information to make any kind of....response (I'm trying not to say judgement!) on the situation, good or bad. I also know that had I not found support on the internet when my ex left me, I might have been daft enough to up and leave the area just to hurt him in the way he had hurt me. It's a natural reaction - most of us, I think, have people around us who can support us in doing the right thing and help us recognise that whatever has gone on between two adults, it's not the children's fault. But if that support is lacking and the person concerned just wants to feel 'safe' (I know I went into total panic and fear mode in the early days), running towards 'home' is, I think, a natural reaction and not unreasonable. Sadly, in this case, 'home' is a long way away and has denied the children a relationship with their dad. In all but the most extreme cases, that's not acceptable, is it?

MissMoneypenny

benefitbaby wrote: »

It may be that your ex has completed sufficient work to gain permanent residence rights although the length of her stay outside the UK could have extinguished these rights (when exactly did she leave?).

He has already said that she returned to her home country 2 years ago.

benefitbaby wrote: »

she still may have entitlement to benefits by arguing that Article 24(3) rights exist under the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union apply:
3. Every child shall have the right to maintain on a regular basis a personal relationship and direct contact with both his or her parents, unless that is contrary to his or her interests.

I'm not sure how that can be used by the OP to force his ex wife back to the UK. The OP can live in same country as his children as they are in an EEA country and he can "maintain on a regular basis a personal relationship and direct contact" in that county. He has also said that he still hasn't been to that EU country to see his children, so the choice of not to have contact, is his.

benefitbaby

MissMoneypenny wrote: »

I'm not sure how that can be used by the OP to force his ex wife back to the UK. The OP can live in same country as his children as they are in an EEA country and he can "maintain on a regular basis a personal relationship and direct contact" in that county. He has also said that he still hasn't been to that EU country to see his children, so the choice was his.

The OP has at no point said he wishes to force his ex back to the UK. He is trying to show a Judge that his ex would have potential entitlement to social welfare and social housing because the ex is saying she would not.

The ex has been ordered back to the UK and the OP may find the EU charter useful in adding to his argument.

The OP asked for benefit advice and I was merely trying to offer some guidance rather than assess the background issues and reasons for the court action on both sides.

I have successfully used the arguments I mentioned in previous tribunals but as I said in my post the prospect of success depend on a number of factors, and the OPs solicitor should have referred this issue to a social security law practitioner.

MissMoneypenny

PippaGirl wrote: »

I'm not at all saying that this is the case here, but what if there was DV in the relationship and the mother had run to protect her children from harm? What if she was deeply traumatised by the psychological abuse (and possible physical)? What would we be saying then? I'm just aware we only have one side of the story here and like others have stated we are coloured by our own historys and own experiences. My attenae is raised due to her fleeing the country and her keeping running, she is very frightened of something.

I worked in a womens' refuge for a while, so I'm worried about this too. The stories some of those womens OHs use to use to try to see them:eek: The refuge wasn't that pleasant compared to a home, but to them it was heaven.

We have been told that she is on benefits, but no that one could find her (even the benefits office??); then told she could be on benefits, but isn't. So I assume she is working to keep her children. We have been told she cost this country thousands trying to find her, but then told by the OP that he is paying his own costs.

The OP has already said he hasn't been to see his children (or live in that country) even though they are just in another EU country, so no problem with him living and working there, so I'm not sure why he hasn't????? Unless he is a non EU citizen and is just in the UK on an EU permit as the family of an EEA citizen - his ex wife: who has now returned to her country and is not exercising her EU rights to be in the UK; which might affect the OPs claim to UK citizenship???

The OP has a solicitor, so he can take advice from them. I hope his ex has a solicitor too.

PippaGirl_2

benefitbaby wrote: »

The OP has at no point said he wishes to force his ex back to the UK.

The court action will have been instigated by him, his opening paragragh strongly suggests it. If the children were thought to be at risk due to abuse or neglect they would either be back here already or in the care of the authorities in the other country, whereas this is him taking legal action based on the fact that she has removed their children from his country. That is her sin.

Thinking of the children's best interests here, is it better for the children to be settled in the mother's home country with the mother who no longer fears she will be forced to live where she doesn't want to (who might then have some contact with their father in that country) or be forced to return to the UK where their mother will be depressed and distressed and be living where she is so unhappy and powerless to change her life.

benefitbaby

PippaGirl wrote: »

The court action will have been instigated by him, his opening paragragh strongly suggests it. If the children were thought to be at risk due to abuse or neglect they would either be back here already or in the care of the authorities in the other country, whereas this is him taking legal action based on the fact that she has removed their children from his country. That is her sin.

Thinking of the children's best interests here, is it better for the children to be settled in the mother's home country with the mother who no longer fears she will be forced to live where she doesn't want to (who might then have some contact with their father in that country) or be forced to return to the UK where their mother will be depressed and distressed and be living where she is so unhappy and powerless to change her life.

I am not taking sides, all I am saying is that the ex absconded without the permission of both parents (which is I assume why the courts have become involved) and ordered her return, the OP asked only about possible benefit entitlement and I have replied accordingly.

Ultimately all courts in the EU are bound by the best interests of the children and the OP has suggested that at present his ex is not coping and the children are suffering as a result, the court has demanded she return to the UK and he appears to be trying to ensure this is viable. If the OP cannot show this then the ex and children will remain in the EEA.

Yes the OP could visit if this were to happen but he has commented that the ex has moved frequently which has hindered both the court issue and I assume access. Lets not forget that the ex's mental health is not good and she has no support system presently whereas in the UK she would have assistance with the children from their biological father, his family and friends.

This is an unenviable situation but the OP came on a benefit forum and asked for some benefit guidance nothing more.

MissMoneypenny

benefitbaby wrote: »

The OP has at no point said he wishes to force his ex back to the UK.

Did you read the opening post? He wants to force his ex to the UK from her country, so he and his new partner can take the children.

benefitbaby wrote: »

I am not taking sides, all I am saying is that the ex absconded without the permission of both parents

We only the story he has told. We haven't heard his ex's side of the story.

benefitbaby

The opening post says the court has ordered her return (based on a lot more info and reports than we have here) and not because he wants to take the children, and we don't need the ex story it is irrelevant to the question posed by the OP.... what benefits could an EEA national and 2 children have on their return to the UK?

My concern is that many posters have made very personal comments unrelated to the question asked and although I understand why, the forum is supposed to be a supportive environment based on benefit questions.