Warning: npower accept new customers without sending them a Contract

25.6_Pre-contract_oblig

Thanks Terry for Post #68 (and for reposting it!) and Wywth for Post #66.

All readers,
If you go back to the start of this thread (review Posts #1-#8) you will
see that I patiently waited one month before I phoned npower after
my first call on 17/08/2012.

As most readers will have surmised I am trying to write accurately.
I am trying not to 'jump to conclusions'.

The conventions I am using: I am using single quotes when I paraphrase,
use slang etc and I will use double quotes (") when I am making direct quotations
from Documents or from actual speech.

Until 20 November 2012, the only time that anybody (myself or npower) said that they thought
'something might be lost in the post' was myself and Mike (at npower)
thinking my Welcome Pack might have been 'lost in the post' (on 17/09/2012 - Post #3).
However, npower were not able to 'send it again'. {Unless it is the 'strange document' that was posted to me on 25 September 2012 (dated 17 August 2012) that says
"... You didn't ask us to give you an estimate for your gas, but by getting both ..."
(see Post #4 - above) which is, everybody agrees, inaccurate.}
Nor have they ever been able to send me a Contract.

So, I agree with Terry in Post #68.

I have received a large A4 envelope from npower.
I'll describe the contents, and then summarise, in the next two posts.

25.6_Pre-contract_oblig

continued ...

25.6_Pre-contract_oblig

I have received an A4 envelope, hand addressed to me.
It contains:

First, the 'strange Welcome Pack' (see Post #3 and #4 - above).

Second, a 25 page 'data stream' of text that I think could be used to be part of a Contract. Wearing my 'IT hat' I think this could be 'the words from the Legal Department' that could be used as part of the wording of a Contract if they were 'merged with the Customer's record data', as in a 'personalised mail merge'. Alternatively, these words might be combined with a 'style sheet', or 'mark-up data' to produce a Contract with
'numbered terms'.

Third, all the other letters referred to in Posts 2#-#5 and Post #35.

This includes the Letter, dated 24 September 2012, (see Post #5 - phone calls on 01/10/2012, 02/10/2012 and 03/10/2012) where npower were telling me that they did not know the number of my Gas Meter
(and yet they 'switched me' on 21 September 2012 - 3 days before).
It also includes two letters about Direct Debits (that I have previously received,
see Post #3, but are not explicitly referred to in Post #65).

The only difference between these 'copies of previous letters' and the original ones
is that these are printed single sided (the original ones are double sided).
The errors are still present.

There is no 'covering letter'. To start with I was a bit puzzled: I have read all of them before I had a chance to read Post #65. I now think "Adam at npower" has arranged 'to send me everything' that npower 'think they have already sent me' - in case any of it was 'lost in the post'.
Apart from the 'data stream', that I am about to describe, I have read all of this before.
So, nothing was lost in the post BUT, remember, I did not receive some documents before npower switched me.
The dates matter.


I have also received 2 more letters from npower today.
Both are dated "20 November 2012", one is CT/COMPRES1 and the other is CT/COMPRES2.
These inform me that I have 'jumped up two levels in npower's Compaint System'.
I imagine "Adam at npower" has escalated my case.
Also, this thread has now had more than 2,400 views.


Comments on the 'data stream'.
This is quite hard to read.
It consists of 25 pages of text (all in a sans-serif font, like Arial).
The only formatting are the occasional 'line breaks', where I surmise, there might
be numbered clauses. There are no Headings, no bold, no reference to
the parties to the Contract, e.g. me or my Customer Number etc.

Three examples:

Example 1 - (from Page 3)
"your old supplier has objected to the transfer;
after taking all reasonable steps, we still do not have all the information we
need from you to complete the transfer, and that information readily
available from another source; or
after taking all reasonable steps, we are prevented from completing the
transfer due to any reason beyond our control.
If the transfer has been delayed for one of the reasons set out at iii, iv or v
above, once that reason no longer applies we will complete the transfer as
soon as we reasonably can, and at the latest with 21 days of the date that
the reason for the delay no longer applied (unless you no longer want to
continue with the transfer)."

Comment:
There are no paragraphs "iii" or any other number.
Reading it very carefully I think, when it is formatted it MIGHT say
"iii. your old supplier has objected to the transfer;"
i.e. in the section I have typed here, in Example 1, we see the text of
Paragraphs "iii, iv and v" but without the 'numbers of the Paragraphs'.


Example 2 - (from page 14)
"in the UK, although how we collect, store and use your personal information
will continue to be governed in line with clauses 36, 37, 38 and 39, the legal
protection provided by our contracts and any relevant laws."

Comment: again there are no numbered clauses. This time I can not
hazard a guess as to what words these are: e.g. which is "clause 37"?
In a 'Contract with numbered clauses' this would be obvious.


Example 3 - (from page 19)
"Additional Terms for the Freedom Standard offer
These terms are in addition to and do not replace npower's 'Standard terms
for supplying electricity and gas to domestic customers'. The main terms are
set out in bold."

Comment: the 'data stream' does not have any bold so I can't tell
the "main terms" from the others.

I could supply other examples.
The main point is this is not a Contract (the words however, could be used in a Contract).
I am sure it is not what npower, or any Company with a Legal Department, would
expect to be presented as 'a Contract'.

So, what documentation do I now have that I did not have
before 20 November 2012?

Just the 'data stream'. Is this a Contract?
No, it is not.

25.6_Pre-contract_oblig

continued...

25.6_Pre-contract_oblig

In Post # 71 I said that npower's 'new system' can not meet
npower's own published standards.

What do I mean?

Example 1
What happens when I switch to npower?
http://customerservices.npower.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/292

Has the following:
"When you've switched to npower, these are the next steps:

Within 7-10 days

· We'll send you a copy of your contract containing the details you have provided, along with our Terms and Conditions.
..."


Example 2
http://www.npower.com/Home/Electricity-and-gas/Terms-and-conditions/index.htm

Has the following:
"If you are a new customer you will receive a copy of these standards with your welcome letter and if you are an existing customer, you will receive a copy once in every 12 month period."

I think the text is referring to "Guaranteed Standards" and "Overall Standards" mentioned, just above, on this web page.


Not being able to meet your own standards is often the first 'warning sign' of spectacular failure.

Welcome Pack
I have not had a 'Welcome Pack' that says I am receiving Gas from npower.
In the copy of the 17 August 2012 'document', that I have been sent "Adam at npower" acknowledges that this document is inaccurate. So do all the other people at npower that I have talked to on the phone (as documented above).
This '17 August 2012' document was not sent until 25 September 2012 (after I had 'been switched').

In the "5th November 2012" Letter, as documented in Post #35,

the last paragraph is:
"I trust the above information has been useful to you Mx Yyyyyyyyyyyyy {my Name} and I can assure you we will get your welcome pack to you as soon as possible."

Contract
All the people at npower, in the 8 most recent phone calls, tell me that
they know I have not had a Contract,
that they want to send me a Contract and
that 'due to their new system' that they are not able to send me a Contract.

The '25 page data stream', sent on 20 November 2012, is NOT my Contract.

Other
The "copy of these standards", described in Example 2, has also not been sent to me.


We have all noticed that npower are not refuting my factual points, nor are they answering the questions I asked, on 06/11/2012, in Post #6
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/57051151#Comment_57051151

So, no Welcome pack, no Contract and no credible answers.

Has the arrival of the 'A4 envelope' changed my opinion?
Yes, it has strengthened my view that npower can't send me a Contract and that issues are more serious than I
thought at the beginning of November 2012.

I do believe that the 'new system' at npower is NOT able to

1. meet npower's own published standards
2. meet the Industry SLCs
3. meet their legal obligations

25.6_Pre-contract_oblig

backfoot

A very poor response from NPower to a very straightforward request.

The OP needs to receive his personalised contract documentation and any associated T&C's.

At the moment,this dripfeed of unintellgiible papers are illustrating the OP's view that NP's system is not fit for purpose and that they should be not be able to sign up new customers while it persists.

Have you tried reporting it to Consumer Focus? They have taken up Forum issues previously.

TheSilentOne_2

backfoot wrote: »

At the moment,this dripfeed of unintellgiible papers are illustrating the OP's view that NP's system is not fit for purpose and that they should be not be able to sign up new customers while it persists.

I agree and it should be rectified before they acquire new customers. From what I have witnessed from this forum and others, is that this new system is creating more problems than solving them.

It seems to be creating incorrect bills, making up whatever direct debit payments it wants to, creating incorrect consumption figures and not producing the legal information that it is obliged to do.

You can't provide customer service if the system you are using is non functioning. This will cost them a serious customer base until it's resolved.

scootw1

I've got a feeling that this new system of npowers has increased my direct debit more than it should. I spoke to customer service the other day and they said I was 3 pound in credit on my latest bill so obviously my payments are covering the bill but the dd is going up by 33 pound to 93 Pound as of january. I was told this is because of winter. A small increase I could understand but this is 198 pound extra over the next six months and my tariff is fixed until may! Surely it shouldn't be that high ( for a 2 bed flat as well). Of course, I can't see my bill to see if something is amiss. So, Adam, if you are there, I have not had a bill to look at and customer service online seem to be ignoring my emails so any idea when this situation will be resolved?

25.6_Pre-contract_oblig

backfoot wrote:

Have you tried reporting it to Consumer Focus? They have taken up Forum issues previously.

Thanks backfoot,
I am raising this issue through various channels: I've not posted about all of them.

Hi TheSilentOne,
I am interested in evidence. Even if you don't have 'link posting privileges' you could give the Thread Titles.
Also, if you know and can document specific situations - this could be useful.

Hi scootw1,
Thanks for posting. The more specific you are in your posts the better will be the quality of your evidence.

All readers,
I imagine many people have experienced 'issues' with npower's 'new system'.

Speaking for myself, in August I phoned npower. At that point I was only vaguely aware that npower had been criticised for their Customer Service. It was only because I became convinced, by what npower were telling me, on the phone (that they were unable to do ...) that I began to conclude that there was a 'systemic issue'. It was while I was researching this issue, in late October 2012, that I came across MSE.

So, if you have had issues that could be caused by their 'new system', as described above in this thread, I would welcome your evidence.

25.6_Pre-contract_oblig

backfoot

Here is another one.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4308671

lamialex

OMG!
Is this company run by monkeys?
I'd rather deal with monkeys actually, at least I wouldn't be surprised with their appalling customer services.
It's been a month now that I've tried to get in touch with them. I've moved to a new home where they were using Npower, I had never used that company so I decided to give it a try. Definitely a big mistake!
I have been waiting several times for more than 20 minutes on the phone listening to crap music and a robotic voice telling me that I hadn't been forgotten and I would be in touch with someone shortly. Once, I was even told I was top of the queue for 20 minutes. Seriously!!!! Are there any humans working in this company?
And several times, they have been experiencing problems with their system so I need to call back later, like right now for example...

The previous tenant gave me her internet details so I tried to contact them via internet, or change the name of the account, same deal, absolutely appalling.

Not sure what to do?
The previous tenant needs the final bill!
Do I just switch off now to another company?
I have a life and I don't want to waste it on endless calls to Npower.

Sorry if this is not the right thread, not sure where to put this.
Thanks.

nPower

scootw1 wrote: »

I've got a feeling that this new system of npowers has increased my direct debit more than it should. I spoke to customer service the other day and they said I was 3 pound in credit on my latest bill so obviously my payments are covering the bill but the dd is going up by 33 pound to 93 Pound as of january. I was told this is because of winter. A small increase I could understand but this is 198 pound extra over the next six months and my tariff is fixed until may! Surely it shouldn't be that high ( for a 2 bed flat as well). Of course, I can't see my bill to see if something is amiss. So, Adam, if you are there, I have not had a bill to look at and customer service online seem to be ignoring my emails so any idea when this situation will be resolved?

Hi scootw1,

I'm more than happy to look into this for you. If you can pop over your account details to [EMAIL="forumresponse@npower.com"]forumresponse@npower.com[/EMAIL], I can get onto this right away.

Many thanks,

Adam