Warning: npower accept new customers without sending them a Contract

25.6_Pre-contract_oblig

Update: Consumer Focus are aware of this issue and this thread. :j

While we wait for my Contract and for npower to answer my questions I thought readers might be interested in the following observation.

Provision of Domestic Supply Contracts
22.8 If a person requests a copy of any form of Domestic Supply Contract that the licensee may offer under paragraph 22.2, the licensee must send a copy of that form of contract to that person within a reasonable period of time after receiving the request.

Source:
http://www.ofgem.gov.uk/Licensing/Work/Pages/licence-conditions-consolidated.aspx

In this thread there has been some debate about how to interpret the phrase
"that the licensee may offer under paragraph 22.2"
when thinking about "any form of Domestic Supply Contract".

First, see SLC 1.2
Definitions in alphabetical order
"Domestic Supply Contract" means "a Contract for the supply of gas to Domestic Premises".
So, I read that as 'all types' (not just Deemed Contracts).

Second, one of the advantages of the electronic versions of the SLCs is that one can search within them.
So, in addition to 22.8 (above) we also find references to 22.2 (sometimes in words - not numerals) in SLC 8.4 and SLC 27.1. I am arguing that ALL of these SLCs (8.4 22.8 and 27.1) the intended meaning is "any form of Domestic Supply Contract (not just Deemed)" as defined in SLC 1.2.

In SLC 22.9 the phrase is just "a Domestic Customer" with no specific reference to 22.2.

I stand by my view, in Post #36, that "any form of Domestic Supply Contract" means the common sense (and not just Deemed Contracts).

I am thinking that perhaps (more experience readers may know) the 'wording referring to 22' was used to make it quite clear that when 'Domestic Contracts' were being referred to; the additional reference to "22" was to make it quite clear that ALL Domestic Contracts were included.

In other words 'all Domestic Contracts including Deemed': the reference to "22" was the 'legal way of saying' - 'including Deemed'. Just a thought.

Terrylw1 wrote:

That's very interesting if their new SAP system can't issue contracts.

That would definitely be a systemic issue and needs Ofgem to investigate.

They can easily still produce it manually I guess but I'm betting there are many thousands of customers also chasing them for their contracts.

If a supplier stated it couldn't produce any bills, it would be a major issue...we all remember Independent Energy being bought out by...Npower...for this very reason as their value plummeted overnight.

Where are Ofgem? Hiding again until they are forced to get involved?

Emphasis added. Read my points that Terry was commenting on.
Source is Post #62


However, the consensus of all posters in this thread is npower are breaching SLC 22.8.

npower are breaching SLC 25.6.
In August 2012 - see Posts #1 to #8.
In September 2012 - See Posts #15 and #20.
In October 2012 - See Posts #97, #99, #100 and #103 (switch from one npower Tariff to another {energyhelpline} - no documentation).
In November 2012 - Posts #86 and #87, #96 and #98, #104 and #106.


25.6_Pre-contract_oblig

*Jane*

I have logged into my account and can find no contract. I cannot even find anything to say the date the change over took place. When I logged in last week I was still on the sign on line 24 tariff. Think I will email them to find out when the change over did actually take place.

25.6_Pre-contract_oblig

More evidence (from two experienced posters) - see

Problems with NPower and MoneySuperMarket.com
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4324783

The OP jacobsdaduk has evidence that the issues at npower are now
affecting people who are using MoneySuperMarket.com to switch to npower.

jacobsdaduk wrote:

Problems with NPower and MoneySuperMarket.com
I switched Gas and Electric supplier on the 16th of November through the MoneySuperMarket.com. I got a confirmation email from MSM but since then I've heard nothing.

I called MoneySuperMarket.com and got advised by a slightly stroppy lady to call NPower direct as they are having "a lot of problems with them [Npower] not writing to new customers". Not a good start. After a 14min hold I finally got through to NPower. Such a long wait time isn't something I've experienced with an energy supplier before either; perhaps I've just been lucky.
...

There is more detail in that thread.

In Post #4 downshifted posted:

downshifted wrote:

I got the following on November 2nd - never heard another thing. Haven't chased - just figured it got lost. Am about to try to switch again - without using Money Supermarket, who appear to be a total waste of time!

...

Again, more detail in that thread.

Emphasis added: I have made the dates bold.

Both jacobsdaduk and downshifted were using MoneySuperMarket as a 'switching site'.
Both have been unable to switch to npower.
See Posts #5 and #6 in that thread.

25.6_Pre-contract_oblig

backfoot

As the reported problems seem to be increasing it would be helpful for the NPower Rep to state what the current position is.

There are delays in switching and it appears there is a complete lack of contract documentation.

Such a situation is both worrying and of legal concern to switching customers, both exisiting and potential.

For example, my current deal shortly runs out and NPower lead my comparisons currently.

A statement needs to be made in these circumstances.

25.6_Pre-contract_oblig

npower application issues Nov 2012
Posted on November 20th 2012 in Famous last words (sic - don't you just love the irony )
http://blog.theenergyshop.com/?p=492

There are updates on 23rd, 27th and 30th November.

According to npower there was a backlog before 20 Nov 2012 and, I paraphrase, 'all is OK now'.

However, The Energy Shop then had evidence of that this was NOT the case.
Then, just like we have been seeing here, silence from npower (until they pushed).

Comment:
I wonder how long The Energy Shop will continue to offer the option to switch to npower when they know, from their own Customer feedback, that all is 'not OK at npower'?

25.6_Pre-contract_oblig

backfoot

Well done to 25.6 for being right up to speed on this issue right from the outset. Excellent research and determination to unearth what was wrong with his account and then quickly identifying the wider implications.:T

Just a pity that NPower seem unnacountable.

25.6_Pre-contract_oblig

FAO "Adam at npower"

I know you are still having trouble with your 'new system' and in answering my important questions in Post #6.

Perhaps, in the mean time, you can answer a much easier question.
*Jane* has changed Tariff see Post #101
Where is the documentation for this?

25.6_Pre-contract_oblig

25.6_Pre-contract_oblig

As readers know, I'm posting here because I am convinced that there are issues with npower's 'new system'.
npower have not been forthcoming, nor are they able to deny the serious points that have been raised.

Consumer Focus are aware: I have had both written and verbal contact
(see Post #102 where I have started to make a cross reference to other Posts).

The 'issues' have spread to 'switching sites' and 'switching Tariffs - while remaining a Customer of npower'.
I'll say more about this below.

Also, FYI, I had never even looked at MSE until late October 2012.
So, I'm 'new to npower and the history of npower'.

How big is the iceberg?
I personally can only see the 'tip of the iceberg', the rest is below the water.

Is this another issue like the gas sculpting?

I sincerely hope not!

For readers who are unaware see

npower, Ofgem and Consumer Focus
forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=1579841
for an introduction.

2.2 million npower Gas Customers were affected.
It was estimated that npower overcharged these Customers at least £60 million pounds.
200,000 of the least affected Customers were compensated.
The other 2 million had to claim. Many did not.

EVENTUALLY there was better news ...
Npower pays back £70m to millions of consumers let down by Ofgem
http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2010/oct/09/npower-consumers-ofgem

Neither npower nor Ofgem came out of this 'looking good' (British understatement).

In assessing the 'How big is the iceberg?' question we
can learn from the main npower gas sculpting thread.

NPower gas 'sculpting'
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/822299

The main thread had nearly 1,600 Posts (from March 2008 to November 2010 - with a few Posts since then)
Many posts were by a few dedicated MSE Posters who helped others.
So, I estimate the number of posters was less than half.
There were other threads too.
So let us say there were less than 1,000 posters out of 2.2 million Customers.
A very small percentage actually Posted.
In this case the Customers were being overcharged.

So, if at this point in time we only have a few posters in this thread
we can NOT conclude that there is 'nothing to worry about'.

On the contrary, the fact than npower can NOT send me my Contract,
despite the fact that:
A. There is an Official Complaint.
B. The Complaint has been escalated twice.
C. "Adam at npower" is also, I am quoting him - "aware of this post" - which has now had over 3,800 views.

is evidence that there are issues at npower.


How long does it take npower to post a document?

Here is some evidence (excluding 'special hand addressed envelopes'):

I received two letters on 23 November 2012 (dated 20 November 2012) - see post #73.
I received one letter on 10 November 2012 (dated 5th November 2012) - see post #35.

"Adam at npower" has said (Post #65)

"... You called npower on the 17.08.12 and agreed a verbal contract over the telephone.

We sent you a welcome pack on the same day. This included a welcome letter for electricity, but we are aware that this was a system generated error and should have said dual fuel. ..."

I still disagree that npower sent me anything on 17 August 2012 (most readers will have realised this).

However, to be explicit, I think what happened was the following:

I phoned npower on 17/08/2012 and we agreed a verbal contract over the telephone (See Posts #1 to #5).

The 'new system' CORRECTLY made an 'IT exception' to the 'strange 17 August 2012 document' (that I now have two copies of - I received the first on 27 September 2012).

I think MY case was 'diverted' into a 'these items need attention queue' and I was NOT sent anything in the post.

The document is dated "17th August 2012".
It is possible that "Adam at npower" assumed that it was therefore 'put into the TNT mail' on that date.
I think this is a false assumption.
"Adam at npower" does, however, say "this was a system generated error".

On 17/09/2102 (one month later) I phoned.
This 'triggered off' 4 letters (11 September x2, 12 September and 13 September).
I think these four were waiting 'in the queue'. All four arrived on the same day (I think 20 September 2102). I did not phone npower until Monday 24 September 2012 because I wanted to read my Contract before I gave npower my meter readings.
However, it still had not come.

I have posted, several times, that I don't think MY Contract has ever been generated by the 'new system'.
If it had been, npower would have sent it to me by now.

Despite the evidence that 'all was not OK', which npower had in September 2012 (possibly earlier - I can only see the 'tip of the iceberg'), I now think npower recklessly carried on.

Did Ofgem know?
Difficult to assess - they have not given me any indication that they are aware.
If Ofgem made it easier to report systemic issues they would hear sooner.
I imagine they know now.
How many Customers have been affected since September 2012?
Nobody is being open about the bigger picture: see again my unanswered Questions in Posts #6 and #7.

Did Ofgem stop them?
Clearly, no they did not.

Several posters have said that npower should have, I paraphrase, 'stopped to fix their system'.
See e.g. Post #96 and Post #20

So, in October and November 2012 we have issues spreading to 'switching sites':

• energyhelpline (see Posts #97, #99, #100 and #103)

• The Energy Shop (see Post #106 - at least The Energy Shop are warning their Customers - see their blog)

• MoneySuperMarket.com (see Post #104)

npower do not seem to have a 'system that can deal with' / 'is compliant with' the SLCs.
I speculate that there are so many issues with the 'new system' that there is not enough resource (e.g. people) being allocated to deal with the 'situations that the new system can't cope with'. Speaking personally, I don't want special treatment (although I am confident I am getting the very best service that npower can provide).
I do want npower to send all the Customers their Contracts.

25.6_Pre-contract_oblig

nPower

Good afternoon everyone,

I thought it would be useful to update you on where we are in issuing our 'welcome to npower' packs to new customers.

I'm pleased to report that we will have completed sending out these letters by early next week, so customers will receive them shortly.

I'd also like to reassure you that the actual switching process has not been affected - gas and electricity supplies are being processed as normal.

We're really sorry for the delays in getting these packs out to our new customers.

Best wishes,

Adam

*Jane*

You state the welcome packs are being sent to new customers what about existing customers?
Bit late to be sending welcome packs out when you have already switched people.