Warning: npower accept new customers without sending them a Contract

grahamc2003

backfoot wrote: »

I switched at the end of October from a Scottish Power contract to another fixed term contract. This was done over the phone directly with SP.

I didn't receive any written confirmation either by email or post. neither have I received any contract documentation to this date.

It seems totally wrong to me.

But don't you agree to the contract terms when you instruct them to switch tariffs? (Even though the contract terms haven't been seen usually)? I expect the legal situation is if you are concerned about the t&c then you should examine them before entering into the contract (i.e. at the meeting of the minds, meaning when you (verbally) request the switch and they agree to switch you).

In fact, the only time the terms of a contract are routinely examined in advanced of agreeing a contract (for the average bod) is when buying a house. We do that perhaps once every seven years, yet enter into contracts probably several times each day - so this entering into a contract without actually knowing what you are agreeing to is pretty widespread. Mostly, we only acquire contracts when things go wrong to see what we previously agreed to and what obligations the counterparty has.

My supply contract is available online - partly in 'general terms' and partly in tariff specific terms. I'm pretty sure the op's is too.

If the regulator has ruled on printed contracts being sent in the post, then that should happen - but I didn't receive a written contract when I switched suppliers a year ago - not sure what I would have done with it even if I had.

Terrylw1

25.6_Pre-contract_oblig wrote: »

spiro, thanks for you comment. I did phone (see above) so SLC 25 is the relevant section. For the avoidance of doubt I did NOT use a switching site. Also, as I've not been sent a Contract, following my request, there may be OTHER breaches ...



I've not seen my Contract and so I RESERVE THE RIGHT to reject the Contract until I have had a chance to read it!


<snip>


I think npower are ALSO in breach of SLC 22.8 as I have repeatedly asked for my written Contract (see above in this thread).

25.6_Pre-contract_oblig

My impression of 22.2 is that a supplier must offer to enter into a domestic contract with a customer they already supply under a Deemed contract. I could be wrong here but suppliers are quite publicly refusing to supply to customers with complex metering which has been going on for years. If I am wrong, which in this case I would see as a good thing, consumers forced off complex metering or left with the old regional host supplier should use this and complain to Ofgem.

The other scenario is covers is where a business is converted into domestic as it forces the supplier to apply domestic rates regardless of operational need to switch them to their domestic supply entity.

Its perhaps worth asking what Ofgem's view of 22.2 is.

Its good that you have accessed the SLC's as you can use them against the supplier in a complaint.

I do always think we should bombard Ofgem and any other body that can bring this all out into the open. Breaches are so common and nothing seems to be happening.

The SLC's are also vague in places and its not uncommon for supplier regulation teams to contact Ofgem for the same clarification!

Scottish_Power

backfoot wrote: »

I switched at the end of October from a Scottish Power contract to another fixed term contract. This was done over the phone directly with SP.

I didn't receive any written confirmation either by email or post. neither have I received any contract documentation to this date.

It seems totally wrong to me.

Backfoot- this seems odd. Please e-mail details to [EMAIL="onlinecomplaints&#64;scottishpower.com"]onlinecomplaints@scottishpower.com[/EMAIL] and I'll check it for you. Thanks David

jalexa

grahamc2003 wrote: »

But don't you agree to the contract terms when you instruct them to switch tariffs? (Even though the contract terms haven't been seen usually)?

I'm quoting that point though I'm mainly responding to the OP. I *believe*, though I haven't recently verified the case, that the requirement for hard-copy contract (and cooling-off) follows from distance selling legislation which on the issue has precedence. The cooling-off period would normally commence the day after the receipt of the contract hard-copy. No hard-copy - the supply contract is "void".

Note that a difficult situation arises if the supplier asserts the contract was sent (but it is claimed not received).

Now some tactical guidance for the OP. Regulator "suits" do not like one person campaigns alleging compliance breaches. Why? That's our job stoopid, for which we receive a jolly good salary and expenses. In particular, in my personal experience, the suits of the Ofgem Consumer Affairs Directorate are not even interested in evidence of systemic non-compliance.

Next, the Energy Ombudsman is not the Regulator so don't go there with a systemic regulation issue.

[Historical bootnote: formerly Consumer Focus might have usefully performed this role but have been consigned to "death row" and in preparation appear invisible, something their forum rep has long practised]

So either you have a personal grievance or you don't. If you do you need to construct a case which the Energy Ombudsman might deign to consider. You would need to switch from your current supplier, at your cost, citing non-provision of contract hard copy resulting in customer detriment. Then you need to claim the detriment costs from your current supplier, if necessary via the Complaints procedure. If you remain dissatisfied at "deadlock" or after 8 weeks whichever occurs first, you would have a personal case to refer to the Energy Ombudsman.

The chances of success are better than the lottery but the potential rewards are very meagre. This is a low budget operation that thinks small. The process is cost-free to the complainer but an accepted case regardless of the outcome costs the supplier a circa £350 case fee.

backfoot

scottishpower_company_representative wrote: »

Backfoot- this seems odd. Please e-mail details to [EMAIL="onlinecomplaints&#64;scottishpower.com"]onlinecomplaints@scottishpower.com[/EMAIL] and I'll check it for you. Thanks David

Thanks David,

I am considering my options and want to learn more about Supplier obligations regarding contract documentation. At this stage,this is a new area for me.

What would be interesting, would be to have SP's response to what should have happened during my telephone switch from the Direct October 2012 to

Online Fixed Price Energy March 2014 (No Standing Charge)

My online account has been set up but there are no contract documents in the message folder and none were received by post.Indeed no communications at all were received.

What should have happened?

p.s. I invited Suppliers including SP to respond to thread below but only Eon have had the courtesy to do so.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/57107195#Comment_57107195

backfoot

grahamc2003 wrote: »

But don't you agree to the contract terms when you instruct them to switch tariffs? (Even though the contract terms haven't been seen usually)? I expect the legal situation is if you are concerned about the t&c then you should examine them before entering into the contract (i.e. at the meeting of the minds, meaning when you (verbally) request the switch and they agree to switch you).

No I would have expected to see the Contract documentation in writing or be referred to it by a website link.

The legal situation, I presume, is covered in the SLC's rather than just Contract Law,but I am not yet up to speed, which is why I have asked SP to explain the process that should be followed.

Certainly the norm, in my experience, is to receive a contract in writing via the post.

25.6_Pre-contract_oblig

grahamc2003 wrote: »

... In fact, the only time the terms of a contract are routinely examined in advanced of agreeing a contract (for the average bod) is when buying a house. We do that perhaps once every seven years, yet enter into contracts probably several times each day - so this entering into a contract without actually knowing what you are agreeing to is pretty widespread. Mostly, we only acquire contracts when things go wrong to see what we previously agreed to and what obligations the counterparty has.

I'm one of the minority who does read the Contract! I've never dealt with npower before. So, I do want to read the Contract carefully. For one thing, I want to know how the 'Dual Fuel £100 discount after one year' works - the t&cs for this. If I was changing from one Tariff to another but NOT changing Supplier then I might not study the Contract quite so much.

grahamc2003 wrote: »

My supply contract is available online - partly in 'general terms' and partly in tariff specific terms. I'm pretty sure the op's is too.

I'm in the Kafkaesque position of not knowing which 'Gas product' I am receiving. For Electricity I know I'm on "The National Trust Green Energy" Tariff. This is the one I phoned about on 17/08/2012. While I was on the phone I then asked about Gas and if npower could supply me Gas without a Standing Charge. All of the 'selection of product' was done on the phone. All of the communication between npower and myself has been on the phone or by post (NO email). So, while my 'Gas product' might be online, as I don't know which one it is I can NOT be sure what the Terms in the Contract are.

grahamc2003 wrote: »

If the regulator has ruled on printed contracts being sent in the post, then that should happen - but I didn't receive a written contract when I switched suppliers a year ago - not sure what I would have done with it even if I had.

In all 10 phone conversations with npower (documented above) the 'people speaking on behalf of npower' have said thatI should have had a Contract, that their 'normal procedures' are to post a Contract. I'm now fairly confident that a 'normal npower Welcome Pack' includes a Contract. My reading of the SLCs are that 'posting a Contract to a new Customer who phones a Supplier to become their Customer' is the correct procedure (SLC 25.6). Also, if a Customer claims - as I have done "I've not recieved my Contract, please send it to me" that the Supplier should do so (this is SLC 22.8 - which I also quoted above).

My issues with npower are:
1. They should have sent me a Contract BEFORE the switched me (they did not). This is SLC 25.6.
2. They should also do this for ALL their potential new Customers. npower are telling me, on the phone, that others are also not receiving their Contracts.
3. They should, by now (I've been asking for it since 17/09/2012), have sent me a copy of my Contract (SLC 22.8).

My issues with Ofgem are:
1. IMHO they should be enforcing the SLCs.
2. To enable them to get reports of possible breaches of the SLCs they should make it easy for Customers to report them.
Their Telephone for "Ofgem Consumer Affairs" (0207 901 7295) has a recorded message but 'no human to take your call'.
I want them to hear and answer the questions in Post#7 (above).

backfoot wrote:

I switched at the end of October from a Scottish Power contract to another fixed term contract. This was done over the phone directly with SP.

I didn't receive any written confirmation either by email or post. neither have I received any contract documentation to this date.

It seems totally wrong to me.

backfoot, I agree with you. David from Scottish Power also thinks you should have had a Contract.

25.6_Pre-contract_oblig

25.6_Pre-contract_oblig

jalexa, thanks for you comments too. I'll bear all this in mind.

Terrylw1 wrote: »

... Its perhaps worth asking what Ofgem's view of 22.2 is.

Its good that you have accessed the SLC's as you can use them against the supplier in a complaint.

I do always think we should bombard Ofgem and any other body that can bring this all out into the open. Breaches are so common and nothing seems to be happening.

The SLC's are also vague in places and its not uncommon for supplier regulation teams to contact Ofgem for the same clarification!

Terrylw1, if I get into communication with Ofgem I'll also ask them about this.


25.6_Pre-contract_oblig

Terrylw1

22.8 is only relevant if you are covered under 22.2.

The reason why I don't think 22.2 applies to switching is because it uses the term Must. Ofgem can't force suppliers to take customers on just because they won't to switch to them. This would remove the suppliers right to turn away potential customers who fail credit checks. That's a simple view of why it shouldn't cover switches.

25 is definitely relevant to your case though.

Ofgem are, well...the same as they have always been. They were never interested in the past and now they let the EO make a further mess of customer complaints. I remember the old days when Ofgem handled the complaints. They always sent generic information requests regardless of whether the data was even relevant to the complaint and didn't ask for information beyond this which was. It was a big joke to supply staff who saw this as incompetence on Ofgem's part, I remember.

Unfortunately, Ofgem are typical of the Ivory Tower syndrome and just want to be left alone to do whatever it is that they do.

Terrylw1

backfoot wrote: »

No I would have expected to see the Contract documentation in writing or be referred to it by a website link.

The legal situation, I presume, is covered in the SLC's rather than just Contract Law,but I am not yet up to speed, which is why I have asked SP to explain the process that should be followed.

Certainly the norm, in my experience, is to receive a contract in writing via the post.

23.1 would be relevant since it doesn't specifically state any scenario other than where they enter into a domestic contract. Its a bit vague though so you could experience some squirming!