"Tough Love" Cuts for sick and disabled!

Poppie68

The goverment have said sickness benefit will be stopped for people that REFUSE help and treatment. Surely thats a good thing.

If people are genuinely sick and finding it hard to access the correct treatment who knows this might open a few doors for them?

And for them swinging the lead....be afraid!!!!

Whose knows, maybe a good thing and maybe it may not...

rogerblack

Poppie68 wrote: »

The goverment have said sickness benefit will be stopped for people that REFUSE help and treatment. Surely thats a good thing.

If people are genuinely sick and finding it hard to access the correct treatment who knows this might open a few doors for them?

And for them swinging the lead....be afraid!!!!

Whose knows, maybe a good thing and maybe it may not...

As I mentioned above - there is refuse, and refuse.

There is refusing because you want to stay eligible for benefit as you can't be bothered working, and there is refusing because you have been asked to do something that is inappropriate, based on someone who does not understand your health condition.

'Swinging the lead' is unfortunately likely to not be determined by someone with any deep understanding of the persons medical condition, but by someone with at best a weeks training.

As an example, I was so exhausted by my last Work Focussed Interview that I was basically in bed for 4 days.
I have in the past after a couple of hours out in town been brought back home by the police, as I was acting strangely, because I was so tired.

(post-exertional malaise - it's a symptom of chronic fatigue syndrome. Exertion, especially when fatigued causes extended periods of disability)

Poppie68

Surely someone flatly refusing any form of treatment or help even though they are not currently on any or in alot of cases previously not had help, could be a pretty short bet for 'swinging the lead'

In my job throughout the years i have come across scores of people who visit their GP with the 'right symptons', start a collection of sick notes, are referred for help and either never turn up for appointments or cancel. Not only wasting NHS time but depriving geuine people of the chance of help.

It maybe that if claiments are already in treatment or counselling further help will not be offered and they are left in peace(yes wishful thinking i know)

Something has to be done to stop sickness benefit cheats and unfortunately some genuine people may get caught in the crossfire, but what is the alternative?

rogerblack

Poppie68 wrote: »

Surely someone flatly refusing any form of treatment or help even though they are not currently on any or in alot of cases previously not had help, could be a pretty short bet for 'swinging the lead'

Ah - but it's not 'any form'.
It's refusing (or not participating in) a specific form of treatment that has been determined by someone without perhaps a good understanding of the claimants condition would be helpful.

A couple of problems arise.
If it wouldn't be helpful, but not harmful, this is at worst a waste of the claimants time.
For others, some types of 'help' could actively worsen their condition.

For example - yes, I have problems socially, due to my fatigue.

But, trying to treat this by (for example) requiring me to attend a day centre every day for a couple of weeks, is likely to result in me having problems at least getting home safely the first day, and being entirely unable to get there (or indeed much beyond struggling to the toilet and kitchen for food) the next.

Then I'd have the additional fun of trying to appeal the sanction.

On your last point.
'Something has to be done' - why?
This is a serious point.
DWP figures put fraud at 0.5% or so, when government ministers would dearly love them to be reporting it at 30%.

Clearly, 0.5% is too high - but it is also comparable with the amounts paid in error due to DWP failings, and vastly smaller than the amount not claimed.

dori2o

Poppie68 wrote: »

Surely someone flatly refusing any form of treatment or help even though they are not currently on any or in alot of cases previously not had help, could be a pretty short bet for 'swinging the lead'

In my job throughout the years i have come across scores of people who visit their GP with the 'right symptons', start a collection of sick notes, are referred for help and either never turn up for appointments or cancel. Not only wasting NHS time but depriving geuine people of the chance of help.

It maybe that if claiments are already in treatment or counselling further help will not be offered and they are left in peace(yes wishful thinking i know)

Something has to be done to stop sickness benefit cheats and unfortunately some genuine people may get caught in the crossfire, but what is the alternative?

If that is the case I have no problem with it, everyone should attempt at least some form of treatment.

But what happens when, like me, you have exhausted treatment options?

Will these HCP's accept that, or will they force someone into further treatment, which may have already been tried, which may or may not have been detrimental to that persons condition?

Not everyone responds positively to treatment.

I've been through many different treatments, some conventional, some not, and nothing I have tried yet has improved my condition, but some have made it worse.

Poppie68

dori2o wrote: »

If that is the case I have no problem with it, everyone should attempt at least some form of treatment.

But what happens when, like me, you have exhausted treatment options?

Will these HCP's accept that, or will they force someone into further treatment, which may have already been tried, which may or may not have been detrimental to that persons condition?

Not everyone responds positively to treatment.

I've been through many different treatments, some conventional, some not, and nothing I have tried yet has improved my condition, but some have made it worse.

Yes but thats my point...you have tried, the people they should be and hopefully will be targeting will be the 'have never bothered', there is plenty of them trust me.

Thing is everyone can talk about it until they turn blue and get their knickers in a tizzy, nobody knows who it will target but the sky article seems to suggest drug addicts and alcholics maybe the main focus?. Apart from the sky artcle its hardly Breaking News.

Poppie68

rogerblack wrote: »

Ah - but it's not 'any form'.
It's refusing (or not participating in) a specific form of treatment that has been determined by someone without perhaps a good understanding of the claimants condition would be helpful.

A couple of problems arise.
If it wouldn't be helpful, but not harmful, this is at worst a waste of the claimants time.
For others, some types of 'help' could actively worsen their condition.

For example - yes, I have problems socially, due to my fatigue.

But, trying to treat this by (for example) requiring me to attend a day centre every day for a couple of weeks, is likely to result in me having problems at least getting home safely the first day, and being entirely unable to get there (or indeed much beyond struggling to the toilet and kitchen for food) the next.

Then I'd have the additional fun of trying to appeal the sanction.

On your last point.
'Something has to be done' - why?
This is a serious point.
DWP figures put fraud at 0.5% or so, when government ministers would dearly love them to be reporting it at 30%.

Clearly, 0.5% is too high - but it is also comparable with the amounts paid in error due to DWP failings, and vastly smaller than the amount not claimed.

Im not getting into the refusal part again...



I will though ask you why you dont seem to have a problem with benefit fraud?
I dont care if its 0.1% its calculated theft, its illegal. Its thieves stealing money from the tax payers from the country.
The DWP maybe pay out more money in error?? so what, i would rather be seen as i incompetent idiot than a thief any day.

colin13

I have progressive MS,no treatment available,but because I can sit and present well for a short time,the uneducated may see me fit for work,which I am not,as a previous poster said,it is people with little or no knowledge,who decide if we are fit for work,the whole process is only for one reason,cut the welfare bill,and to hell with the problems caused by a person not doing job correct

rogerblack

Poppie68 wrote: »

Im not getting into the refusal part again...



I will though ask you why you dont seem to have a problem with benefit fraud?
I dont care if its 0.1% its calculated theft, its illegal. Its thieves stealing money from the tax payers from the country.
The DWP maybe pay out more money in error?? so what, i would rather be seen as i incompetent idiot than a thief any day.

Because efforts at tackling fraud and error should be made where the returns are highest, and the costs are lowest.
Clearly you can stamp out essentially all fraud by spending five hundred pounds a year investigating every claim in detail.

However, to pay back, you'd need to recover 100000 pounds from each fraudulent claimant, which seems unlikley.

Is 0.5% too high - certainly.
Fraud on JSA is _much_ higher.
Holes in taxation leading to avoidance are _MUCH_ higher, as is tax evasion.

Poppie68

Nobody knows what they are going to do, or who these health professionals are. Supposedly the goverment has said the healthcare professionals could require claimants to attend theraphy and other treatment. Then again they might not, it might be agreed that the claimant is already having established treatment and they then should not be allowed to interfere.
By the time they have got through the achololics and drug addicts theres not going to be alot of change left from £25mil anyway.

Anyway Rogerblack its time for me to shut up, i have my views and you have yours, the world would be a very dull place if we all agreed.