SOA for the OR

NekoZombie

allofadither wrote: »

Hobbies and holidays?

Maybe you could incorporate the cost of driving lessons in the hobby/holidays if either of these are allowed.

Hmm, it'd be great of they were allowed...will certainly check

fermi

Here is an extract from OR's guidelines regarding acceptable expenses for an IPA:

31.7.19 Expenditure items which can be allowed

The following provides a general list of expenditure items which can be included in addition to basic domestic expenditure when making an IPA/IPO calculation to establish whether the bankrupt has surplus income:

* TV licence
* Household and car insurance
* Car tax
* AA/RAC or similar motoring assistance club membership
* Membership of professional body required in order to carry out employment (unless paid by employer)
* Hire of TV and/or DVD/video player (no more than one of each appliance per household)
* Prescription charges - see paragraph 31.7.20
* Dental and optical treatment - see paragraph 31.7.21
* Mobile phone costs - see paragraph 31.7.22
* Dry cleaning costs - see paragraph 31.7.23

31.7.24 Other expenditure items to be considered

Outgoings assessed must be realistic and should cover the actual expenditure required to provide for the reasonable domestic needs of the bankrupt and his/her family. It may be necessary when examining the figures provided by the bankrupt to consider other areas of expenditure which the bankrupt may not have included, but which are necessary for meeting their reasonable domestic needs. Some bankrupts may find it difficult to assess the outgoings of themselves/and or their family where the expenditure is sporadic (e.g. buying school uniforms) or prior to bankruptcy they have not been in a position to meet their reasonable domestic needs as a result of other pressing debt repayments.

In these circumstances it may be necessary for the official receiver/trustee to refer to average expenditures in order to calculate the realistic outgoings required to meet the reasonable domestic needs of the bankrupt and his/her family.

The following suggested areas cover other types/amounts of expenditure claimed by the bankrupt which may need careful consideration when making an IPA/IPO assessment.

* Clothing - see paragraph 31.7.25
* Holidays - see paragraph 31.7.26
* Hairdressers - see paragraph 31.7.27
* Extra curricular activities for children - see paragraph 31.7.28
* After school clubs - see paragraph 31.7.29
* Pets - see paragraph 31.7.30
* Rent arrears - see paragraph 31.7.31
* Maintenance payments - see paragraph 31.7.32

The text comes from:
http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/freedomofinformation/technical/techmanvol1/Ch25-36/Chapter31/part7/part2/part_2.htm

This and some other parts linked to from HERE are worth reading if you want an in depth look at the guidelines the OR works from in most matters.

Regards

Richard_S

NekoZombie wrote: »

Hi guys!

I've had a letter through from the OR to put an IPA in place for £156. I worried I might have missed something on my statement, or maybe not put the amounts at the maximum possible. For example, I'm claiming £8 a month for hair - I actually spend far closer to £40 a month, so I'm interested in getting what I can for this one. Yes, a lot, but I have afro hair and its chemically treated at £70 every 8 weeks. The rest is for specialist afro hair products. (I really wish it was less expensive being a girl!)

So, my income is approx £1,322

Rent, including council tax and bills/council tax: £600
Houskeeping, including food and clothing £200
Telephone (Mobile) £35
Oyster card: £100
Clothing: £20
Pension: £97
Internet £6
Hair £8
Dentistry £5

Total: 1071 = surplus of £251

Hmm, not sure how I've got an IPA of £156.

Hi Neko,

I think you've understated your expenditure, £200 per month for food seems very low, you're allowed approx £60 per month as an accrual for a holiday, £50 per month for socialising, clothing also looks low. It's better to include things that the O.R might not allow than it is to commit to an IPA that's ultimately going to be unworkable. If you find that you've got loads of spare cash per month you could always advise the O.R that you got it wrong and you'd like to start paying something

I've included a list below, some of which are irrelevant and would never be allowed but it may just prompt you to include something you've forgotten.

Best regards

Rich

Home
Bank Charges
Bank Interest
Mortgage (1)
Mortgage (2)
Household Maintenance
Buildings Insurance
Contents Insurance
Council Tax
Water Rates
Gas Bill
Electricity Bill
Home Phone Bill
Internet Bill
Mobile Phone Bill(s)
Cleaner
Garden Maintenance
Window Cleaner
Computer & I.T Costs

Insurance
Mortgage Payment Insurance
Mortgage Term Assurance
Level Term Assurance
Private Medical Insurance
Pet Insurance
Travel Insurance
Gas & Plumbing Cover
Other Insurance

Food & Drink
Food & Household Shopping
Eating Out
Coffee / Sandwiches Out
Pet Food
Drinks for Home
Drinking Out
Smokes
Meals at Work
Other Eats, Drinks & Smokes

Transport & Travel
AA Membership
Rail / Bus / Coach / Taxi
Car 1 Maintenance
Car 2 Maintenance
Car 1 Insurance
Car 2 Insurance
Car 1 Tax
Car 2 Tax
Parking
Car 1 Petrol
Car 2 Petrol
Other Transport

Family
Driving Lessons
Laundry / Dry Cleaning
Pocket Money
School Meals
School Trips
Other Family

Fun & Frolics
DVD / Video Rental
Hobbies
Pet Costs
Fitness / Sports / Gym
Big Days Out
Book / Music / Films / Games
Cinema / Theatre Trips
Family Days Out
TV Licence
Other Fun

Big One Offs
Cost of Christmas
Cost of Winter Holiday
Cost of Summer Holiday
Cost of Birthdays
Cost of Sofa / Kitchen / TV
Other Big One Offs

Clothes
New Clothes
New Children's Clothes
Work Clothes
Other Clothes

Education
Your Courses
School Fees
University Tuition Fees
Other Education Costs

Sundry
Beauty Treatments
Newspapers / Magazines
Dentistry
Haircuts
Optical Bills
Lottery
Other Odds & Sods

uther_2

If you find that you have got your figures wrong,how easy is it to convince the OR that you have understated or forgotten something?

NekoZombie

Rich,

are you sure you're allowed money for socialising? I agree the houshold monthly is low - I used the figures set by Ostrich for an IVA with a surplus of £375, and I forgot to switch the figures back. Would 250 be o.k?

NekoZombie

uther wrote: »

If you find that you have got your figures wrong,how easy is it to convince the OR that you have understated or forgotten something?

Hopefully not too hard, or I'm bu*gered.

savagevixen

I understand it is perfectly acceptable to say that you have gone back over your income and expenditure and realised some things were not included, and that some figures had been put in incorrectly. Their job is not to do you over, but to ensure you have enough to live off, and yours does look awfully frugal!!
I read on the debthelpuk forum some man challenging every bloomin thing and fully arguing with the OR!

Richard_S

uther wrote: »

If you find that you have got your figures wrong,how easy is it to convince the OR that you have understated or forgotten something?

Hi uther,

If you made a mistake that was making it impossible for you to meet your IPA then I'm sure the O.R would allow you to re-negotiate your budget. The point is that you don't want to find yourself paying one at all.

The minimum of £50 isn't going to make any difference at all to banks and financial institutions but it makes a big difference to somebody struggling to make ends meet when you haven't got a credit card to fall back on if something unexpected crops up.

Rich

fermi

From the OR's guidelines I quoted earlier. I should have added:

31.7.33 Expenditure items which should NOT be allowed

The following provides a general list of expenditure items which should not be included when making an IPA/IPO calculation, unless the bankrupt can prove there are extenuating circumstances:

* Gym membership
* Sports expenses or club membership
* Additional pension contributions to enhance a pension
* Private healthcare insurance or similar (however see also paragraph 31.7.21)
* Social and entertainment expenses- see paragraph 31.7.34
* Satellite TV - see paragraph 31.7.35
* Broadband internet costs (unless shown to be necessary for the bankrupt's paid employment) - see paragraph 31.7.35
* Excessive mortgage payments - see paragraph 31.7.36
* Student Loans - see paragraph 31.7.37
* Regular payments to charitable and religious organizations/tithing - see paragraph 31.7.38

Some of these you should perhaps include (but expect to be denied) as individual OR's may be a little lenient. However, in particular 'Social and entertainment expenses' should not be included as the OR would be justified in thinking that you are trying to take the proverbial p**s. Getting on the wrong side of the OR would be a very bad idea.

Just my opinion...

Regards

Richard_S

NekoZombie wrote: »

Rich,

are you sure you're allowed money for socialising? I agree the houshold monthly is low - I used the figures set by Ostrich for an IVA with a surplus of £375, and I forgot to switch the figures back. Would 250 be o.k?

Hi Neko,

I can't be certain about anything given that every O.R interprets the rules differently but their guidance does state that a bankrupt should not be expected to live a life that by normal standards is "Dickensian".

If you put £50 the O.R might knock it down to £35 but if you'd put £35 in the first place they'd want it down to £20. It's "horse trading" Neko but you've got to play the game to your advantage. The O.R's job is to raise as much for your estate as he/she can, your job is to ensure you don't pay anything, or as little as possible.

I can't remember how many of you there are but even if there's only two of you £250 isn't much. Don't forget groceries or household expenditure has to include cleaning materials, detergent, toilet roll, kitchen paper, an annual paint job for the house, food for your plants, pain killers, deodorant, h3ll Neko, as you said you're a girl the list is potentially endless. Batteries for the smoke alarms, petrol for the lawn mower, oil for the car, de-icer, sun block; "bump up" that expenditure Neko

Rich