We’d like to remind Forumites to please avoid political debate on the Forum.
This is to keep it a safe and useful space for MoneySaving discussions. Threads that are – or become – political in nature may be removed in line with the Forum’s rules. Thank you for your understanding.
📨 Have you signed up to the Forum's new Email Digest yet? Get a selection of trending threads sent straight to your inbox daily, weekly or monthly!
Motorists - What annoys you most about cyclists
Comments
-
have a look at Reg 36(b) of the TSRGD regs please, or should I look it up for you?Regular law breaker then. Bit strange for a police officer isn't it? And rather disturbing that a police officer is claiming it not to be either careless or unsafe. If that were the case, then red lights would surely be just advisory.
Here it is...
Sec36(b)TSGRD2002
when a vehicle is being used for fire brigade, ambulance, bomb or explosive disposal, national blood service or police purposes and the observance of the prohibition conveyed by the red signal in accordance with sub-paragraph (a) would be likely to hinder the use of that vehicle for the purpose for which it is being used, then sub-paragraph (a) shall not apply to the vehicle, and the red signal shall convey the prohibition that that vehicle shall not proceed beyond the stop line in a manner or at a time likely to endanger any person or to cause the driver of any vehicle proceeding in accordance with the indications of light signals operating in association with the signals displaying the red signal to change its speed or course in order to avoid an accident
To apply this to the actual question you asked which was this...
... plenty of cars and vans and large emergency vehicles safely go through red lights, so your above implication that a car driver can't do it without it being careless or unsafe is complete nonsense.Tilt wrote:This is where you fall down badly. How can you possibly say that cycling through a red light "is not necessarily a careless unsafe thing to do"? So if you were driving a car through a red light, that wouldn't be 'necessarily a careless unsafe thing to do' either then?
I've wondered that once or twice too, 56 years old, 10 stone wet through - facing up to 16 stone roidheads on a Friday night...Even more disturbing coming from a police officer. One wonders if your are in the right job then.
...but I love the variety, and in a small force we have lots of different professional hats to wear, so lots to keep the interest up! - it's ace!!A ridiculous compassion. We are not talking about walking, we are talking about cyclists. AND walking along a platform edge isnt an RTA offence. Riding through a red traffic light is and you have just admitted in an open forum that you have done this hundreds of times as a serving police officer! You really speak volumes about our policing when it comes to traffic violations. It's ok if your a policeman is it?
It's an analogy. You can be close to danger, but perfectly safe. That's the point of the analogy. It's only ridiculous if you don't understand, and I'm tiring of helping teach you tilt, it's hard work...:)Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler.0 -
As I said earlier Brat, you never mentioned that your were driving an emergency vehicle so your response isn't really 'valid'.
Don't forget, I am a mere mortal who finds it difficult to comprehend some of your posts so you need to insert these small bits of information like 'while driving a police car responding to an emergency, I have driven through red lights hundreds of times' may have given me a clue.
But in any event (Again!), we are not talking about emergency vehicles (or non emergency ones for that matter), we are talking about CYCLISTS which is a completely different scenario to an emergency vehicle going through a red light. For a start, the driver of said vehicle will be presumably adequately trained to drive in those situations. I doubt your average reckless cyclist has been.
So no, I totally disagree with your view that a cyclist running a red light may not necessarily be careless or unsafe. At the end of the day it's an offence and as a police officer, you shouldn't excuse or describe it in any other way. By taking your line (that of a police officer), some cyclists would see you as giving them the OK to ride through red lights if they think they are being careful. Fool hardy advice imho and i'm sure any road safety organisation would slate you for endorsing such views.PLEASE NOTEMy advice should be used as guidance only. You should always obtain face to face professional advice before taking any action.0 -
Sorry, Norman. I must be remembering another ID beginning with N. It was someone who cycled and made their argument quite reasonably.Norman_Castle wrote: »Nothing to do with me. I have never gone through a red light and don't support those that do.I need to think of something new here...0 -
The offence is careless cycling, and it's much the same as careless driving.
Sec29 RTA1988 Careless Cycling
If a person rides a cycle on a road without due care and attention, or without reasonable consideration for other persons using the road, he is guilty of an offence.
I didn't know that.. so genuine thanks for telling us. The obvious next question is why don't we hear about some actual prosecutions for the offence but I think you answered that upthread by saying something to the effect that the effort to pursue them wasn't usually worth it for the perceived severity of the offence. Which again is why Tilt, derrick and others are pointing out that motorists who run red lights are more likely to be apprehended for it than cyclists - and that may contribute to the !!!!!!! cyclists choosing to do it recklessly because they believe there is no sanction.
Isn't it the obsolete one of furious cycling? My brother-in-law is quite proud of the day he was flagged down by a traffic cop for exceeding 40mph on a pushbike.You might be getting mixed up with speeding. There's no specific offence of speeding on a bicycle.I need to think of something new here...0 -
It is actually, we have to take the same care as we would at a give way, to ensure not only that we can get through without wasting time, but also not to assume that everyone will react to our warning equipment. On occasion we need to make covert progress, ie without blues and twos - again, no drama. No problems - safely, carefully and progressively.As I said earlier Brat, you never mentioned that your were driving an emergency vehicle so your response isn't really 'valid'.
I understand you're a bus or coach driver - a job that requires a lot of responsibility. I've investigated a couple of fatal accidents in my time involving coaches/ buses. One coach driver personally thanked me that I had helped turn his life around by explaining in inquest how his driving was not to blame for three deaths despite the fact that it appeared he had up to six seconds to react to a developing incident. There are considerations that a coach driver must factor into an emergency avoidance strategy that other road users don't have to consider, not least the overall safety of those in their charge. There is much more to consider than the ordinary car or van driver, so don't put yourself or your profession down.I am a mere mortal who finds it difficult to comprehend some of your posts
It's you that chooses not to want to accept that I'm a police officer, nothing I can do about that, and it doesn't matter to me. But I have explained my role numerous times in this thread. I'ld have thought it wouldn't be difficult to put these things together....so you need to insert these small bits of information like 'while driving a police car responding to an emergency, I have driven through red lights hundreds of times' may have given me a clue.
It's really not rocket science.But in any event (Again!), we are not talking about emergency vehicles (or non emergency ones for that matter), we are talking about CYCLISTS which is a completely different scenario to an emergency vehicle going through a red light. For a start, the driver of said vehicle will be presumably adequately trained to drive in those situations. I doubt your average reckless cyclist has been.So no, I totally disagree with your view that a cyclist running a red light may not necessarily be careless or unsafe. At the end of the day it's an offence and as a police officer, you shouldn't excuse or describe it in any other way. By taking your line (that of a police officer), some cyclists would see you as giving them the OK to ride through red lights if they think they are being careful. Fool hardy advice imho and i'm sure any road safety organisation would slate you for endorsing such views.
I have to describe it the way it is, I'm afraid. One of the hats I wear is a forensic collision investigator, and if asked the question in court about jumping a red light, I would say, yes it's an offence, and additionally, if done so without due care, it could be careless, perhaps even dangerous.
If I said that going through red lights was careless without giving any consideration to the thought processes of the cyclist and the actual scenario, then a barrister from either side could simply be able to say, "where was the carelessness" or "so are you saying that every time you drive through a red light it's careless?"
And just to clarify for the nth time, I'm not condoning red light jumping - because it's illegal.
If however there was a move to allow cyclists to use stop lines at certain red lights as a give way, I'd probably be in favour of that, because it's been seen to work in the continent, and it could offer cycllsts an opportunity to escape from the inherent risks of moving off from such junctions with motorists.Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler.0 -
There are prosecutions for the offence, usually as a result of an accident. Often CPS will be of the opinion that the careless cyclist has suffered enough through his injuries that it is not in the public interest to take them to court. I've probably put 7 to 10 through for careless cycling, although I don't know if any have been prosecuted, we generally don't know what happens with these cases unless we are asked to attend the trial.[/I]
I didn't know that.. so genuine thanks for telling us. The obvious next question is why don't we hear about some actual prosecutions for the offence but I think you answered that upthread by saying something to the effect that the effort to pursue them wasn't usually worth it for the perceived severity of the offence.
I'm guessing that more cyclists are ticketed for red light offences than motorists, but that's probably because many more actually do it.Which again is why Tilt, derrick and others are pointing out that motorists who run red lights are more likely to be apprehended for it than cyclists - and that may contribute to the !!!!!!! cyclists choosing to do it recklessly because they believe there is no sanction.
The offence of wanton and furious driving of a carriage is still current, although, because it's from the Offences Against the Person Act of 1861, (sec35) it requires injury to be afflicted on another. It carries a max sentence of two years imprisonment. It's very rarely used because dangerous cycling was introduced to cover very bad cycling. There was and still is a debate that causing death by dangerous cycling doesn't carry a severe enough penalty, especially in the case of Rhiannon Bennett a few years ago. That was a case where the Sec35 offence should have been used IMO, but the offender walked with a fine.Isn't it the obsolete one of furious cycling? My brother-in-law is quite proud of the day he was flagged down by a traffic cop for exceeding 40mph on a pushbike.Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler.0 -
Reading your posts, I'm beginning to doubt that you are actually a police officer. Rather someone with too much time on their hands...0
-
I'm guessing that more cyclists are ticketed for red light offences than motorists, but that's probably because many more actually do it.
Is that really the case? More than 5 million motorists admitted jumping red lights in a survey last year. This figure is 40% of the total cyclists in the UK!0 -
Handsome90 wrote: »Is that really the case? More than 5 million motorists admitted jumping red lights in a survey last year. This figure is 40% of the total cyclists in the UK!
As I said, it was a guess, not backed by any analysis; but even if 1% of all cyclists (125,000 according to your figures) were to jump red lights twice a day on each of their 230 commutes each year, that would be 57.5 million. I'm sure it's probably many more than that!
Still nowhere near the very roughly estimated figure of 20 billion speeding offences committed by motorists each year.Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler.0 -
If you are behind a cyclist do you overtake or do you "wait your bloody turn".The two things that annoy me about cyclists are "filtering" (my gut instinct is to say wait your bloody turn) and the worst of all, running red lights. Otherwise I'm pretty tolerant of them.
You "tolerate" cyclists?. They have the same right as you to use the roads.0
This discussion has been closed.
Confirm your email address to Create Threads and Reply
Categories
- All Categories
- 352.2K Banking & Borrowing
- 253.6K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
- 454.3K Spending & Discounts
- 245.3K Work, Benefits & Business
- 601K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
- 177.5K Life & Family
- 259.1K Travel & Transport
- 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
- 16K Discuss & Feedback
- 37.7K Read-Only Boards