Problems with multi-fuel burner install

Nickson_2

Afternoon all,

We have had a multi-fuel burner fitted three weeks ago. The company we used are not specialist fireplace/stove installers, but informed us that they could do the work for us. We accepted their quote in good faith.

Once the work was complete, I inspected the install vs. the burner installation instructions and noticed that several things were not correct. The fireplace had been rebuilt with a wooden support lining around the neck of the fireplace about 20 cm away from the burner. The instructions say combustible material should be at least 55cm away. Also there was no plate/fireboard to stop the warm air escaping up the chimney. The burner was almost touching the back wall, and according to instructions there should be a 10cm gap. Also, the pipe out the top was really loose (not sure if this is a problem, but didn’t seem right). Also, I’m not sure the hearth is big enough.

These issues motivated me to research further and I learned at this stage that the council building regs should have been notified in advance and that the install should either have been by a HETAS qualified fitter or would need certification by the council.

I contacted the company on these matters and they confirmed that they are not HETAS qualified and the council has not been informed either of the proposed installation or that it has been completed.

My question is really where do I stand now? As a layperson I would expect a professional organisation to at least advise me that the council needed notifying or that the install would need to be inspected/approved. Will we need to remove the install and start again? Does the responsibility lie with the company or myself? What sort of measures could the council take against me if I was the person who should have notified them? I do hold some of the cards as the company have received no payment at this stage.

With a big blooming hole (open chimney) in my front room making the house cold, the potential invalidation of my house insurance due to uncertified building work (unsure whether this is the case) and most importantly the potential poisoning of my family as no CO detector was fitted in the room or mentioned by the company (obviously I have not used the burner yet), I just want to get this shambles sorted out.
Thanks for any advice on this.

alleycat`

Doesn't sound like they've fitted a notice plate either (among several other things).
Is the installation "sweepable" would be yet another concern?

I'd recommend you examine document J on your local planning portal and it would also be worth speaking to a good local sweep (probably cost you some money but their advice will be worth it).

After that I'd write to the company explaining exactly what the issues are with your install, where they fail to comply with document J and where they also fail to comply with the installation instructions for the stove in question.

You should really then offer them the choice to make the installation good (if you trust them to do so).
Only from there can you move forward.

You could threaten to report them to hetas and the council but i'm not sure how much mileage you'd get from that.

muckybutt

To be honest alleycat Hetas wont give a stuff as the installers were not Hetas registered.

The council on the otherhand could well take legal action if they deem it to be an unsafe installation, which by the sounds of it is what the op has.

OP - does your stove have a liner fitted ? by a liner I mean a flexable stainless steel tube that goes up inside your chimney ?

By the sounds of it you dont have a register plate fitted - you need one for the stove to work as it should.

If no liner fitted then you will also need a sweeping access put either into the register plate or into the chimney breast.

I have included the Part J link for you. Get the builders back and at the same time notify building control, show the builders the part J link and get them to do a proper job - a job thats safe. Last but not least I highly suggest you get a carbon monoxide alarm as well.

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_ADJ_2002.pdf

grahamc2003

Why don't you simply request the council to come and sign off the installation? I'm sure you'd then get a very detailed official report on the numerous problems your stove currently seems to have. You could then submit this to your installers and ask them to bring everything to standard - if they won't or can't, I expect legally you could get someone else to and charge the work to the original installers.

I don't know if your stove can be condemned by an inspector in the way gas appliances can (anyone know?), but it wouldn't matter too much if it was, pending being fixed, since it wouldn't be very effective as a heater anyhow the way it is (or appears to me) at the moment.

Nickson_2

Thanks guys, really appreciate the advice.

We did get the chimney swept before the install and there is a flue attached and (I believe) some sort of component at the top to prevent down drafts and critters getting in at the top. As I mentioned the flue pipe itself is loose and there is catagorically no register plate.

Definitely won't be lighting this until it's resolve/certified/sitting alongside functional CO alarm!

My other half explained that the company had said they didn't need to be registered as the burner is low powered?

I'll have a good long butchers at doc J tonight and plan my next move off the back of that.

Thanks again.

Man_Overboard_2

What you have is a 'DIY installation', and it probably works just fine! (not too sure about the 'wooden support' bit)

The chimney sweep will probably have to pull it all apart in order to clean the chimney, but that's what chimney sweeps love best

Greenfires

Man_Overboard wrote: »

What you have is a 'DIY installation', and it probably works just fine! (not too sure about the 'wooden support' bit)

The chimney sweep will probably have to pull it all apart in order to clean the chimney, but that's what chimney sweeps love best

Great advice there - yeah right.

Chimney sweeps don't take installations to pieces to sweep them - it has to be sweepable without taking apart to meet regs.

It really doesn't help posting "advice" like this. It sounds like the kind of botched DIY job by people without a clue that most decent sweeps will walk away from - after having advised the customer of the correct way to proceed.

suki1964

One does wonder what qualifications manoverboard actually has?

hes not a sweep

Nor a stove fitter

Nor a stove owner

yet he see's himself as some sort of expert to the man in the street

Man_Overboard_2

suki1964 wrote: »

One does wonder what qualifications manoverboard actually has

The only qualification a chimney sweep needs is the willingness to stand under a shower of soot whilst keeping a smile on his/her face!

Chimney sweeping used to be fun before it got regulated.

You met interesting people in interesting places.

I miss it greatly.

muckybutt

Nickson wrote: »

My other half explained that the company had said they didn't need to be registered as the burner is low powered?

:eek: That is completely incorrect, all new solid fuel appliances that are installed HAVE to be installed in line with Part J, it should be installed by a competant person / registered company who can sign the works off, if they cant sign the works off then they have to notify the local council building control to get it signed off.

One thing that wasnt mentioned earlier Nickson - what size in Kw is your stove ? if it's above 5Kw it will also need an extra air vent putting in to the outside in the room the appliance is installed in.

Man_Overboard wrote: »

What you have is a 'DIY installation', and it probably works just fine! (not too sure about the 'wooden support' bit)

The chimney sweep will probably have to pull it all apart in order to clean the chimney, but that's what chimney sweeps love best

No decent chimney sweep would touch it with a barge pole, let alone pull it apart. :mad:

Man_Overboard wrote: »

The only qualification a chimney sweep needs is the willingness to stand under a shower of soot whilst keeping a smile on his/her face!

Chimney sweeping used to be fun before it got regulated.

You met interesting people in interesting places.

I miss it greatly.

What rubbish ! theres a great deal more to chimney sweeping than just sticking a brush up a chimney and hoping for the best.

No two chimneys or liners are the same, its a job that constantly changes as do the chimneys so every day is a learning day.

Chimney sweeping isnt regulated - never has been as far as I know. Yes there are bodies you can join for a fair few quid every year but its by no means regulated by anyone.

Still do meet interesting people and some very interesting places.

suki1964

Man_Overboard wrote: »

The only qualification a chimney sweep needs is the willingness to stand under a shower of soot whilst keeping a smile on his/her face!

Chimney sweeping used to be fun before it got regulated.

You met interesting people in interesting places.

I miss it greatly.

Well seeing as you are now unemployed and there is a HUGE demand for qualified sweeps, you may wish to use the grants out there to start up on your own????