A PPC specific thread and invite them to make their case?

esmerobbo

Not forgetting the BPA Facebook page were they disappeared sharpish when we asked questions they had no answers too!

Driver8

It's a shame that thread is now closed !

It's good to see it brought out again though just to show people cannot defend the indefensible.

PPC's, you're days are numbered, tough.

trisontana

esmerobbo wrote: »

Not forgetting the BPA Facebook page were they disappeared sharpish when we asked questions they had no answers too!

And the Wiki page that the BPA is suspected repeatedly altering to remove some "home truths". Luckily they didn't succeed.

HO87

Those of us who migrated here from Pepipoo will long remember the "Pepipoo Challenge" as it became known that was thrown down to PPC's back as long ago as 2008 IIRC. The challenge basically offered to run the average PPC case against a Pepipoo run defence. It has never been taken up.

That I believe would have established the strength or otherwise of the PPC case. The fact that the challenge has never been taken up is seen by many as an indication of the fragility of the legalities behind the PPC (and thus BPA) case.

edward123

Driver8 wrote: »

It's a shame that thread is now closed !

It's good to see it brought out again though just to show people cannot defend the indefensible.

At least my thread has accomplished that!

PPC's, you're days are numbered, tough.

Well, I am now doing my little piece by educating as many people as I can with pepippo[sic?] 'hand outs' at my local Aldi car park/PH car park('monitored' by Parkingeye and NPC). I have printed out several hundred and am well into distributing them(when at above) to actual and likely victims.

TrickyWicky

edward123 wrote: »

Wondered if any would? Dare to? If they didn't it would advertise they are what 'we' say they are on here....scam outfits? A good suggestion? I mean, start a thread say re "ParkingEye" then invite them to state their case. How many they have taken to court, etc. If they do not comment and remain silent they condemn themselves do they not? Just an idea

Seriously, what would be the point? They're only going to post a load of lies about how they can enforce stuff, how they have rights, blah, blah, blah.

What will it achieve? Nothing apart from showing them to be a bunch of liars we already know they are. Your idea will not change the industry, the way they work or the scam in general. To put it mildly, it would be pointless.

The parking industry is a big cash cow scam and thats all there is to it.

edward123

TrickyWicky wrote: »

Seriously, what would be the point? They're only going to post a load of lies about how they can enforce stuff, how they have rights, blah, blah, blah.

That could be the point. For if they are then allowed here to tell "lies" they have been allowed to condemn themselves. More nails for the coffin lid perhaps?

What will it achieve? Nothing apart from showing them to be a bunch of liars we already know they are. Your idea will not change the industry, the way they work or the scam in general. To put it mildly, it would be pointless.

Perhaps. But see above for an alternative .

The parking industry is a big cash cow scam and thats all there is to it.

And let them themselves show this as well? Digging their own grave?(to keep with the former analogous phrase)

I'm a bit of a fan of letting persons/people/groups etc condemn themselves!

TrickyWicky

edward123 wrote: »

That could be the point. For if they are then allowed here to tell "lies" they have been allowed to condemn themselves. More nails for the coffin lid perhaps?

How is it going to put more nails in the coffin? In a court of law? Who is going to sue them and for what? Do you have the funds to take them to court and demand a court order to stop them trading?

These people are only responsible to the BPA and DVLA (and thats barely as both are in bed with each other). Do you not see that these companies are a law unto themselves? There is no stopping them unless parliament clamps down on them and their little scam. In case you've not noticed, they've attempted to give PPCs registered keeper rights recently so who's side do you think MPs are really on? Several people wrote to MPs about this pathetic piece of legislation and did it change anything? No.

edward123 wrote: »

And let them themselves show this as well? Digging their own grave?(to keep with the former analogous phrase)

It won't happen. Your in the mindset of thinking that there is still some mysterious legal department out there that will catch these cowboys and nail them to the floor. Who is it? The DFT, the OFT, Trading Standards.. none of them want to get involved in the PPC industry. Who else is there to take them on? No-one. The Queen herself stays on the yacht that belongs to the bloke who started NCP. Do you really think there is a political motive to change the PPC industry? No, there isn't.

What you forget is that this isn't the USA. This is the UK where draconian-ess has always been the political show of strength. The more draconian you are towards the population the longer you last at the top of the pack of dogs.

Besides, you're forgetting something.. PPCs don't like talking on MSE or to the public in general. They can't be bothered with explaining their version of the scam and how its legitimate because they're too busy milking the innocent motorist. Even if they did come on here, what would it prove and to who? The odds are low that any of it could even be used in any legal proceedings as you'd need to prove it was actually the PPC and without a court order to MSE for the IP and then the ISP for the account details..

In short, while I admire what you think might achieve something, it isn't going to happen. I've had numerous jobs in parking over the years and its one industry thats pretty much bullet proof (apart from ignoring the PPC PCN payments).

edward123

TrickyWicky wrote: »

How is it going to put more nails in the coffin? In a court of law? Who is going to sue them and for what? Do you have the funds to take them to court and demand a court order to stop them trading?

Did I mention privately sueing in court? Those with authority(MP's) would have the nails. They could be banned at worst by a law being passed or severely restricted. Like banning and blocking is now banned? Why? Partly because the 'public's' outcry. And then such practices became unlawful on a certain day, October 1st 2012. If they are allowed to condemn themselves and those lies are advertised enough then might it mean their 'death' the way of clamping has? All things are possible. You however seem to rule it out altogether!

These people are only responsible to the BPA and DVLA (and thats barely as both are in bed with each other). Do you not see that these companies are a law unto themselves? There is no stopping them unless parliament clamps down on them and their little scam. In case you've not noticed, they've attempted to give PPCs registered keeper rights recently so who's side do you think MPs are really on? Several people wrote to MPs about this pathetic piece of legislation and did it change anything? No.

Right! You got it. Clamping and blocking now banned...by Parliament. Keep the pressure on and who knows whats next??

It won't happen. Your in the mindset of thinking that there is still some mysterious legal department out there that will catch these cowboys and nail them to the floor. Who is it? The DFT, the OFT, Trading Standards.. none of them want to get involved in the PPC industry. Who else is there to take them on? No-one. The Queen herself stays on the yacht that belongs to the bloke who started NCP. Do you really think there is a political motive to change the PPC industry? No, there isn't.

So tell us who got clamping and blocking outlawed?

What you forget is that this isn't the USA. This is the UK where draconian-ess has always been the political show of strength. The more draconian you are towards the population the longer you last at the top of the pack of dogs.

Who got draconian and got clamping and blocking stopped?

Besides, you're forgetting something..

Are you sure?

PPCs don't like talking on MSE or to the public in general. They can't be bothered with explaining their version of the scam and how its legitimate because they're too busy milking the innocent motorist. Even if they did come on here, what would it prove and to who? The odds are low that any of it could even be used in any legal proceedings as you'd need to prove it was actually the PPC and without a court order to MSE for the IP and then the ISP for the account details..

Its possible, and remember lest you have forgotten that I was only asking about a possibility and possible outcome, that what any lengthy discussion on here where a PPC shows they are what we think they are, a scam, will be taken on board with any thing else that shows they should be further restricted, serverly restricted, even banned.

In short, while I admire what you think might achieve something, it isn't going to happen. I've had numerous jobs in parking over the years and its one industry thats pretty much bullet proof (apart from ignoring the PPC PCN payments).

Bullet proof? Clamping by the PPC's has been shot down! So then might the PPC themselves? At least making them far less lucrative than they are now?

TrickyWicky

edward123 wrote: »

Did I mention privately sueing in court? Those with authority(MP's) would have the nails. They could be banned at worst by a law being passed or severely restricted. Like banning and blocking is now banned? Why? Partly because the 'public's' outcry.

It was never about the public. The government just used that as an excuse to rub their dirty little hands together to enlarge the PPC scam in order to make more money from the motorist.

Don't forget, clampers leave a nice big notice on the car with their contact details for the motorist to call. If they remove a car they notify the police.

If you get issued a PCN then the DVLA make some money from it which goes to the government. Then there is the increased tax revenues.

Besides, as for MPs having the nails, do you really think they're going to use a few replies from an internet forum as part of an investigation? Rupert Murdoch still hasn't been nailed yet his companies have official records and bank payment details etc.

MSE is just a forum with a database that can be accessed by anyone anywhere. Anyone can sign up and post. Again, without a court order to MSE for the IP address and another court order to the ISP who owns that IP, the whole thing is pointless. Do you really think they would do that? Sure they might consider if there is suddenly something new and big exposed - like the parking sector secretly trafficking prostitutes around the globe but thats not going to happen. Those at the top already know how the PPC scam works. Do you not see that? They are supporting it.

As I said to you earlier, I admire your inspiration but it isn't going to work. Besides none of the big players like NCP, UKPC etc are going to want to come on a forum like this to tell you all publicly that they are running a scam / face questions about the legitimacy of their business. If it were you at the top of a PPC making easy money, would you want to come here and admit you're a scammer?

edward123 wrote: »

And then such practices became unlawful on a certain day, October 1st 2012. If they are allowed to condemn themselves and those lies are advertised enough then might it mean their 'death' the way of clamping has? All things are possible. You however seem to rule it out altogether!

Clamping was a 'dirty' industry in the eyes of the government. Clampers would get sued, have no money for bailiffs and nothing to be seized etc. With no assets, do you think HMRC were getting their slice of the action? I certainly don't.

You have to see the bigger picture, all of this stuff is political. They sit around at meetings and work out how to benefit themselves from things like this. Your idea of getting PPCs on here to tell us about the scam and answer awkward questions that even the BPA avoided answering is a non starter. They are not interested in being accountable to the public.

edward123 wrote: »

Right! You got it. Clamping and blocking now banned...by Parliament.

In favour of PPCs and their PCNs.

edward123 wrote: »

Bullet proof? Clamping by the PPC's has been shot down! So then might the PPC themselves? At least making them far less lucrative than they are now?

While that is true that the clampers have gone, the current status quo is that the goverment and its chums are supporting PPCs and the use of their PCNs. Political agendas do change with time and in 20 years they may well be put out of business (though with NCP paying £Millions in tax revenue each year I doubt it). Besides, in 20 years the whole scam could have changed again and in that case, anything posted by PPCs (if you could find any that wanted to take part) here on MSE this year or next would be so old and out of date it would be next to useless.

What you're forgetting is that people have been debating how to deal with PPCs for many years on MSE and they still haven't got anywhere. They got the BPA on here and even that went south and the BPA left. IF the BPA can't hack it, do you really think any PPC would willingly come here to expose themselves and make themselves liable?