Cost of child-care makes working pointless for all but the most well paid mothers

ILW

Surprised me that Generali could be one of them annoying parents who when one of their offspring is ruining an occasion for many others (quiet meal etc), will smugly explain that little Toby is just expressing himself.

michaels

Generali wrote: »

The problem is that you pay for childcare out of taxed income: given the state of the UK's tax system you can earn substantially more than the cost of childcare but end up just breaking even.

Imagine 2 women each with 2 children. Option 1 thye both look after their own children until the youngest starts school. Option 2 they both work as child minders and look after each others children resulting in GDP increases, tax credits etc etc - I can't see how the second scenario is better than the first?

Generali

michaels wrote: »

Imagine 2 women each with 2 children. Option 1 thye both look after their own children until the youngest starts school. Option 2 they both work as child minders and look after each others children resulting in GDP increases, tax credits etc etc - I can't see how the second scenario is better than the first?

It isn't better and that shows up one of the most obvious weaknesses of GDP as a measure.

Generali

ILW wrote: »

Surprised me that Generali could be one of them annoying parents who when one of their offspring is ruining an occasion for many others (quiet meal etc), will smugly explain that little Toby is just expressing himself.

I expect a very high standard of behaviour from my children in restaurants and everywhere else. They should never be annoying other people and in fact I made my daughter apologise today to a shopkeeper for playing with a noisy toy in the shop when I had told her to stop.

Children will always be slightly clumsy and it's not reasonable to expect them to be silent. A lot of Brits seem to insist on 'seen and not heard' which is unreasonable and they do it because, IMHO, they are nasty intolerant fools.

vivatifosi wrote: »

I don't have kids Gen, but am not anti-children. While I do think that there are some people out there who don't like them at least some of the blame also has to go on those parents who don't give their children the attention they deserve.

I'll give you an example. A young girl, aged about four, scoots really fast through a shopping precinct at speed. When I mention to her grandmother (who wasn't looking) that she nearly knocked an elderly man flying she just shrugged and said "oh she does that". Now that's not the child's fault, it's the guardian's. Children aren't inherently bad, but they do need to be told what the rules are, for their own safety as much as anything else. Yet you see this type of thing time after time after time.

People shouldn't let their kids behave like that. Very few do IME.

ruggedtoast

Generali wrote: »

This one too. It's amazing how one country can have so many intolerant fools.

Hate away, I'm so glad I left.

Britain isn't especially child friendly, but the intolerant ageing misanthropes who stalk this board trying to convince themselves the sad, lonely, twilight years they have manufactured for themselves were a good decision, are not representative of the country.

bossymoo

Childcare costs are a struggle, but then if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys. I want my children safe and stimulated on the couple of days they can't be with me.

We also need to bear in mind that nursery fees for working parents are not forever. It's probably not "worth" me working at the moment, but I have a reasonable job, and I would be loathe to give it up as it will help provide for our future. I can't just expect it to be available for me (and me suitable for it) in 3 years time when my youngest goes to school, if I were to resign now.

I am lucky to have flexible part-time working so we have the best of both worlds.

Off topic, but I think it does benefit me and the children emotionally to have time apart too. I love my children dearly, but I do think having a little "away" time makes me a more patient mum when we are together.

But it must be awful to not have the option.

The_White_Horse

Loughton_Monkey wrote: »

I'm sorry, but I wouldn't look after anyone's kid for £100,000 a year.

If anyone forced me to, I would give half of them polythene bags and encourage them to play spacemen, and give the other half metal scissors and tell them to dig out the hidden sweets in the electricity sockets.

All young children are simply 'tubes' with a loud noise at one end, and no sense of responsibility at the other. They should neither be seen nor heard, and confined to their own premises.

you forgot to add that despite not wanting to look after them and hating them, you will quite happily take your state pension paid for by their taxes, and take the medical care they will give you. One morning, you will wake up, go to the toilet and find it is full of blood. you will panic, and then call the ambulance (driven by other people's kids) to the hospital (staffed by other people's kids) and demand health care (provided and funded by other people's kids).

People like you make me laugh. there should be an opt out box. unless you don't have kids for medical reasons, you should not get to benefit from anyone elses.

childless scum.

ILW

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Britain isn't especially child friendly, but the intolerant ageing misanthropes who stalk this board trying to convince themselves the sad, lonely, twilight years they have manufactured for themselves were a good decision, are not representative of the country.

Don't think many have a problem with children as such, just badly behaved and controlled ones. Similar to dogs really.
If you know your kid will scream and run around, do not take them to a "grown up" restaurant, there are plenty of child friendly places around that those who do not want to be pestered can avoid.

vivatifosi

Generali wrote: »

People shouldn't let their kids behave like that. Very few do IME.

Unfortunately it's not very few (IME). I get to see them. It could be the very posh lady who doesn't change her toddler's smelly nappy because when she gets home she can hand the child over to the nanny to do the dirty work. It could be the mums who leave young children (about 7-8) in the library and go shopping. With regard to the scooting, many, many children scoot through shopping centres, many scoot through libraries. It's just common sense. If its empty, you're outside, the pavement's even and nice and wide and there's nobody there, scoot away. If it's full of people and a human obstacle course, or you're indoors, get off and walk. It isn't necessarily about the child's behaviour even, but the attention the parent gives them.

ILW

vivatifosi wrote: »

Unfortunately it's not very few (IME). I get to see them. It could be the very posh lady who doesn't change her toddler's smelly nappy because when she gets home she can hand the child over to the nanny to do the dirty work. It could be the mums who leave young children (about 7-8) in the library and go shopping. With regard to the scooting, many, many children scoot through shopping centres, many scoot through libraries. It's just common sense. If its empty, you're outside, the pavement's even and nice and wide and there's nobody there, scoot away. If it's full of people and a human obstacle course, or you're indoors, get off and walk. It isn't necessarily about the child's behaviour even, but the attention the parent gives them.

I think it is a thing with many newish parents. What they think is cute and amusing can just be annoying to anyone else. Some seem to also lose all sense of smell. Many seem to believe they are the only people ever to have had a baby and their child is something special to the whole world.