Cost of child-care makes working pointless for all but the most well paid mothers

IveSeenTheLight

grizzly1911 wrote: »

I think there is a time and a place for a short sharp shock depends on the circumstances.

http://www.neverhitachild.org/hitting.html

But surely you need to use physical force to keep children safe?
There is all the difference in the world between using your strength to snatch a child away from a hot stove or prevent them running into a busy road, and intentionally causing pain as punishment.

Surely a tap on the legs doesn't count?
Yet it does. Lots of parents `tap' babies, but many, many more smack four year year-olds. That's because hitting doesn't work except to relieve parents' feelings. If you let yourself smack your toddler for fiddling with the TV, what can you do when the toddler fiddles again except smack again - harder? And what can you do with the five year-old who refuses to stay in their room to `cool off' except lock the door...?

But is the ordinary kind of smacking that goes on in loving homes worth all this fuss? Yes it is - because violence really does breed violence and violence is a major problem in today's society. We are not saying that hitting at home is the only cause of that violence, but we are saying that ending hitting at home would help to reduce it. Children model a lot of their behaviour on their parents. Parents who use physical punishment are directly teaching their children that physical force is an acceptable way to get what you want. If we want less violent adults we have to bring them up believing that physical force is not acceptable.

grizzly1911 wrote: »

I don't dispute that repeated physical violence would be inappropriate and may lead to bullying/more forceful physical behaviour in the child I don't believe their is a direct correlation in all children.

Certainly punishment reward techniques as you suggest do work.

IME psychological "bullying"can also be detrimental to children and cause them to replay those traits too. it can make th child much more manipulative and calculating particularly as they get older.

If you physically hit a child, they learn that the way to achieve what you want is by repeating that hitting action.

You've also reflected that psychological bullying leads to children developing in a certain manner.

In essence, parents need to lead by example, not by force.

Graham_Devon

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

If you physically hit a child, they learn that the way to achieve what you want is by repeating that hitting action.

You've also reflected that psychological bullying leads to children developing in a certain manner.

In essence, parents need to lead by example, not by force.

Can't say it did me any harm, and can't say that the whole of society for those who received the cane are psycologically damaged either.

Obviously, beating is very different to a smack...and a smack can mean different things to different people too. So long as it doesn't leave marks, I'd be fine with it.

IveSeenTheLight

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Can't say it did me any harm, and can't say that the whole of society for those who received the cane are psycologically damaged either.

Obviously, beating is very different to a smack...and a smack can mean different things to different people too. So long as it doesn't leave marks, I'd be fine with it.

Your last sentence worries me.
I'm not referring that you do, but there will be abusive parents out there who know how to abuse their children without leaving marks.

Ok, it didn't do me any harm either and possibly it's down to how bright / intelligent the individual is.
In the wider society however can you truly say that being smacked hasn't bred physical violence into them as the first thought.

I reitterate, children are a learning sponge and being smacked teaches them that physical violence is the way to acheive their desire.

Far better to teach by example

Graham_Devon

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

In the wider society however can you truly say that being smacked hasn't bred physical violence into them as the first thought.

Well I don't want to get into the nitty gritty of child abuse, as it becomes emotional and therefore irrational.

However, your point above raises an interesting (for me) point.

I think I can truly say physical smaking hasn't bred physical violence. Afterall, the complaints on this thread are about those who haven't received the sort of punishment older generations did, and how wild they are.

If smacking (and beating, via the use of a cane etc) bred physcial violence, surely our 60 year olds of today would have been violent throughout their life?

IveSeenTheLight

Graham_Devon wrote: »

I think I can truly say physical smaking hasn't bred physical violence. Afterall, the complaints on this thread are about those who haven't received the sort of punishment older generations did, and how wild they are.

If smacking (and beating, via the use of a cane etc) bred physcial violence, surely our 60 year olds of today would have been violent throughout their life?

I've made a few links, gere's another
http://www.neverhitachild.org/areview.html

It's up to you to consider the effects of how smacking can affect a child.

Consider a different viewpoint for a moment.

Of those convicted of violent crimes, how many received corporal punishment as a child as opposed to those that had not.

Of those involved in fights in the street, how many received corporal punishment as a child as opposed to those that had not.

We learned the affects of child behaviour is always as a result of the parenting from the fantastic shows presented by Dr Tanya Byron.

I would suggest you look up some of the shows / read her books.
Not once have I seen an expert condoning smacking.

StevieJ

Graham_Devon wrote: »

That would be the 50,60,70 year olds of today, then.

You can't blame the kids and the younger generation parents for the restrictions imposed on them from the generation before.

I remember seeing a documentary where Michael Portillo looked after a load of unruly kids from a poor household for a week or so. He struggled at first but improved their behaviour beyond recognition, and he obviously didn't hit them once Not only that but you got the impression that the kids really liked him at the end of the time with the bonus of raised self esteem.

He showed an unexpectedly warm and perceptive side of his nature when he took over for one week the life, family and income of a single mother living on benefits in Wallasey - When Michael Portillo became a Single Mum, (2003)

Graham_Devon

StevieJ wrote: »

I remember seeing a documentary where Michael Portillo looked after a load of unruly kids from a poor household for a week or so. He struggled at first but improved their behaviour beyond recognition, and he obviously didn't hit them once Not only that but you got the impression that the kids really liked him at the end of the time with the bonus of raised self esteem.

That really isn't anything new.

Sending someone else in, who isn't the parent will always get better effects.

StevieJ

Graham_Devon wrote: »

That really isn't anything new.

Sending someone else in, who isn't the parent will always get better effects.

Maybe we should switch them all round then

grizzly1911

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

http://www.neverhitachild.org/hitting.html




If you physically hit a child, they learn that the way to achieve what you want is by repeating that hitting action.

You've also reflected that psychological bullying leads to children developing in a certain manner.

In essence, parents need to lead by example, not by force.

I repeat I have two well adjusted adults that are not feral and are not violent. Been there done it no issue.

No doubt repetitive abuse for no reason is a different matter.

grizzly1911

CLAPTON wrote: »

before we had kids I knew everything about how kids should behave

when the first was born I knew most things about how kids should behave

when the second was born I knew a lot about how kids should behave

when the third was born I knew very little about how kids should behave

now I know virtually nothing

And then get a couple of dogs if you thought that was fun;)