Cost of child-care makes working pointless for all but the most well paid mothers

CLAPTON

Moby wrote: »

Totally wrong. A lot of recent research has been done on such things as
privatisation of prisons and care homes and the exact opposite has been
shown.





Use tax payers money to pay decent salaries to people who deserve them

I didn't say it was simple but it is clear to all that there was something clearly wrong with the recruitment process and vetting procedures and it is evident that the company concerned were cutting corners to reduce costs.

The point being made is

1. poor standards of care occur in private (for profit ) organaisations
2. poor standards of care occur in state run (not for profit) organisations
3. poor standards of care occur in places with low salaries
4. poor standards of care occur where there are very high salaries


equally

5 excellent standards of care occur in privately run organisations
6. excellent standards of car occur in state run organaisations
7. excellent standards of care occur in places with low salaries
8. excellent standards of care occur in places with high salaries.


My conclusion (based on this and other factors) is that state subsidy for 'deserving' workers (whoever they are ) is not the answer to disgraceful level of care of vulnerable people.

ash28

Graham_Devon wrote: »

That would be the 50,60,70 year olds of today, then.

You can't blame the kids and the younger generation parents for the restrictions imposed on them from the generation before.

The look of sheer horror as some of the older generation rummage for their mobile to call social services if you so much drag your screaming kid out of a shop and shout at them has you feeling the whole world is watching you and you'll get a knock on the door later that day.

If my son is beating up another kid at school, I don't want a "quiet word" after they gently pull him to the side and get him to engage in "mediation" with the teachers. Which basically means softly softly "please don't do that, it's not nice".

I want him forcefully removed, and chucked in some sort of detention area....but alas, that's child abuse, and we, as parents, are also supposed to ask the kids politely not to do it again. A clip round the head at the school gates would have people talking for weeks!

The do gooders GD, you have them in every generation.

You shouldn't really need to smack a child (not often anyway), you just start when they are very young to discipline them and let them know what is acceptable and what isn't. They learn quickly. I could count on 2 hands the number of times I smacked any of our kids and they are in their 30s.

And they could and did behave (and misbehave) - my parents had quite high expectations of children - regarding manners and social behaviour.

Someone earlier in the thread hit the nail on the head I think when they said something like: a lot of parents today think they are the only people to have had children and their child is wonderful and whatever they do is "so cute".

I have seen a lot of that over the years - what's cute when they are 2 ceases to be cute when they are 4/5/6 and parents by then don't know how to stop the children screaming/running amok/throwing tantrums/etc.

wotsthat

Graham_Devon wrote: »

That would be the 50,60,70 year olds of today, then.

You can't blame the kids and the younger generation parents for the restrictions imposed on them from the generation before.

So we can't blame the disruptive children or their (adult) parents but should be blaming the grandparents instead?

Is there anything that isn't the fault of the boomers?

IveSeenTheLight

Graham_Devon wrote: »

If my son is beating up another kid at school, I don't want a "quiet word" after they gently pull him to the side and get him to engage in "mediation" with the teachers. Which basically means softly softly "please don't do that, it's not nice".

I want him forcefully removed, and chucked in some sort of detention area....but alas, that's child abuse, and we, as parents, are also supposed to ask the kids politely not to do it again. A clip round the head at the school gates would have people talking for weeks!

This has been proven not to work and only breeds physical violence in the children.

Children are a sponge and mimic others, which is how they develop.

I have never smacked / clipped my son round the ear.
Sure he's been naughty, pushed his younger sister, even hit her on occasions, but the quiet word and punishment does work.

We recently moved home and I gave my son an old PSP to play with to allow us to get unpacked etc.
He loves it and it is used as a reward now.
When he has been bad, we remove the privileges and pleasures.

He has been fantastic for weeks now.

Yesterday he was naughty and I sent him to his room (no shouting or physical abuse). He was breaking his heart as he knows his slight error means after our short talk, he'd have something taken away from him for a short while (usually the day / next day).

Pretty much everyday, he tells me how good he has or is going to be.

On another occasion a few months ago, after a couple of warnings, his punishment was that he didn;t get to go to a childrens party whilst his sister did.
He broke his heart crying again, even the wife was considering letting him go later in the day, but I was firm and convinced her he would benefit from the lesson.

I believe in positive re-inforcements and my children know if their good, they get rewarded.
If they are bad they get punished.

There is no need to shout or clip your kids round the ear.
Sorry, but in my opinion that's the parents easy way out / inability to control oneself / lack of desire to percevere.

IveSeenTheLight

ash28 wrote: »

I have seen a lot of that over the years - what's cute when they are 2 ceases to be cute when they are 4/5/6 and parents by then don't know how to stop the children screaming/running amok/throwing tantrums/etc.

My son is three so I have yet to go through this period.
I am confident the discipline that we have instilled so far means we will be able to handle him (and his sister) as they grow older.

Sure my kids have had tantrums, but that doesn;t make me feel embarrassed and certainly my children know that it doesn't get them anywhere.

On occasions of tantrums, I calmly reassure them that having a tantrum will not achieve anything ans that I want to see them stop crying, dry eyes, smile and ask nicely.

If they do this sometimes they get what they ask for as they have shown and learn that behaving politely achieves more.
If they are not getting waht they are asking for I give an explanation.

Giving an explanation is important as it helps the child understand the reasons.

As often, communication is they key.

ash28

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

This has been proven not to work and only breeds physical violence in the children.

Children are a sponge and mimic others, which is how they develop.

I have never smacked / clipped my son round the ear.
Sure he's been naughty, pushed his younger sister, even hit her on occasions, but the quiet word and punishment does work.

We recently moved home and I gave my son an old PSP to play with to allow us to get unpacked etc.
He loves it and it is used as a reward now.
When he has been bad, we remove the privileges and pleasures.

He has been fantastic for weeks now.

Yesterday he was naughty and I sent him to his room (no shouting or physical abuse). He was breaking his heart as he knows his slight error means after our short talk, he'd have something taken away from him for a short while (usually the day / next day).

Pretty much everyday, he tells me how good he has or is going to be.

On another occasion a few months ago, after a couple of warnings, his punishment was that he didn;t get to go to a childrens party whilst his sister did.
He broke his heart crying again, even the wife was considering letting him go later in the day, but I was firm and convinced her he would benefit from the lesson.

I believe in positive re-inforcements and my children know if their good, they get rewarded.
If they are bad they get punished.

There is no need to shout or clip your kids round the ear.
Sorry, but in my opinion that's the parents easy way out / inability to control oneself / lack of desire to percevere.

Pretty much what we used to do TBH, though being sent to their room was never an option for ours - a short stint on the stairs was the method we used. I guess it's a bit like the naughty step/corner.

You are right about communication and explanation and to those I would consistency and a united front. If you threaten something then follow it through and make sure you and your partner are batting from the same wicket. If I felt OH had been a bit harsh with the kids I never told him in front of them - I would wait until the kids had gone to bed and we would discuss it. We never had them going from one parent to another in the hope that the other would give in...or get sympathy.

And perseverance and patience, (perhaps the order should be reversed), it's a bit like training a puppy or perhaps I should say training our dog as a pup was like having a naughty child.

There were times I could have swung for them.

IveSeenTheLight

ash28 wrote: »

Pretty much what we used to do TBH, though being sent to their room was never an option for ours - a short stint on the stairs was the method we used. I guess it's a bit like the naughty step/corner.

You are right about communication and explanation and to those I would consistency and a united front. If you threaten something then follow it through and make sure you and your partner are batting from the same wicket. If I felt OH had been a bit harsh with the kids I never told him in front of them - I would wait until the kids had gone to bed and we would discuss it. We never had them going from one parent to another in the hope that the other would give in...or get sympathy.

And perseverance and patience, (perhaps the order should be reversed), it's a bit like training a puppy or perhaps I should say training our dog as a pup was like having a naughty child.

There were times I could have swung for them.

Indeed.

We've used the naughty step as well when he was younger.
Sending to the room allows 5 minutes to ensure composure.
The thing about a naughty step is you can use it anywhere.
I've used it in a chip shop where I told my son to sit against the wall to think about what he did.

I also agree to show a united front and there are times / will be more I would guess where we discuss together after the children are in bed.

I do agree with your perserverance and patience sentence.
They do go hand in had though.

One trick I use from time to time is to put on a sad face and say I am not happy with what they did.
It's amazing how they want you to have a happy face and can quickly turn a situation round.

grizzly1911

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

This has been proven not to work and only breeds physical violence in the children.


I

On another occasion a few months ago, after a couple of warnings, his punishment was that he didn;t get to go to a childrens party whilst his sister did.
He broke his heart crying again, even the wife was considering letting him go later in the day, but I was firm and convinced her he would benefit from the lesson.

I believe in positive re-inforcements and my children know if their good, they get rewarded.
If they are bad they get punished.

There is no need to shout or clip your kids round the ear.
Sorry, but in my opinion that's the parents easy way out / inability to control oneself / lack of desire to percevere.

I think there is a time and a place for a short sharp shock depends on the circumstances.

I don't dispute that repeated physical violence would be inappropriate and may lead to bullying/more forceful physical behaviour in the child I don't believe their is a direct correlation in all children.

Certainly punishment reward techniques as you suggest do work.

IME psychological "bullying"can also be detrimental to children and cause them to replay those traits too. it can make th child much more manipulative and calculating particularly as they get older.

CLAPTON

before we had kids I knew everything about how kids should behave

when the first was born I knew most things about how kids should behave

when the second was born I knew a lot about how kids should behave

when the third was born I knew very little about how kids should behave

now I know virtually nothing

IveSeenTheLight

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Just to confirm, I just said clip round the ear.

I don't think this breeds violence, but it certainly stops them in their tracks.

I was not talking pants down, the slipper out and a whack across the buttocks which leaves a mark for the rest of the day. I'm not sure even that leads to physical violence in their later years, otherwise everyone over the age of say 60 would be going around beating seven bells out of each other.

There's no doubt about it, children learn and develop from the way they have been taught.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jan/29/smacking-david-lammy-riots-black-parents

A smack may well teach that bad behaviour is unacceptable but it also teaches that violence and threats are an effective way of getting the response you want, which does far more harm in the long run.

Maybe worth reading this site as well
http://www.neverhitachild.org/hitting.html