Semi detached - 3 Beds needs Central heating

justjohn

Thing is you don't have to accept any of these things. its the strokes that are pulled too keep the profit margins high.

£30 pound per hour is too high for me. for anyone. And many trades that i use thats the max i pay(becasue i cannot get it any cheaper). However £30 + profit on parts is a no no.

i pay 16-30 pound per hour for the people i pay in building trade. i often supply parts or materials.

Btw garages, solicitors can hit the 30 quid mark or lower.
There are some services that will not due to them being tied down/a monopoly eg estate agents.

in a new boiler or rewire quote there can be a 1000-3000 diference in quotes. Theres something not right there... its not down to push fit pipe or type of boiler. it can be like for like on materials.

keystone

justjohn wrote: »

However £30 + profit on parts is a no no.

I'm not sure if you are saying hats your limit in which case thats fine thats your decision and your prerogative or are you generalising? If its the latter how can you say that when you don't know what the individuals costs are?

You are also self employed and you have constructed your business model according to what works for you.

You are also (unlike someone else further up this thread) familiar with the costs of running a business. Now in your business you buy at X and sell at Y. There is no direct labour involved although there is indirect labour involved and certainly there are other overheads to be recovered. You only have one way to recover them and thats the gross margin you make on the stuff you buy. If the tradesman chooses to recover part of his overheads on materials resulting in a lower labour rate who are you or I to to tell him thats wrong. Thats the way his business is modelled. If you deny him that opportunity the overheads must be transferred totally to labour or he will go bust. Equally if he's trousering too much money he will also eventually go bust because he'll run out of work.

With a central heating (just for an example you can pick any other you like) you are not just paying the guy for his time, you are paying him for his knowledge (what to do and particularly how to do it) and experience too and having the correct tools to do the job. I can't see how you would be in a position to make a judgement on what is a fair houly rate for that work and saying £30 is random and arbitrary. The truth is, of course such work should be done on a job quotation baiss not an hourly rate.

I don't want to be confrontational here but a rational discussion would be a good idea.

Cheers

justjohn

keystone wrote: »

If its the latter how can you say that when you don't know what the individuals costs are?

Bacause other quotes beat the overpriced quote by 1-3000 pound.

You are also self employed and you have constructed your business model according to what works for you.

Don't get me wrong if i was a plumber i too would be pulling these strokes that i listed lol As business is about profit. However if caught i would just walk away lol


You are also (unlike someone else further up this thread) familiar with the costs of running a business. Now in your business you buy at X and sell at Y. There is no direct labour involved although there is indirect labour involved and certainly there are other overheads to be recovered. You only have one way to recover them and thats the gross margin you make on the stuff you buy. If the tradesman chooses to recover part of his overheads on materials resulting in a lower labour rate who are you or I to to tell him thats wrong. Thats the way his business is modelled. If you deny him that opportunity the overheads must be transferred totally to labour or he will go bust. Equally if he's trousering too much money he will also eventually go bust because he'll run out of work.

Incorrect because it is possible to beat quotes and offer parts at costs. Overheads are self inflicted they can be minamized. eg secondhand transit instead of a merc, get the wife a zafira instead of a landy(you get the idea). Decent wholesalers rather than the nearest one(list is endless).

With a central heating (just for an example you can pick any other you like) you are not just paying the guy for his time, you are paying him for his knowledge (what to do and particularly how to do it) and experience too and having the correct tools to do the job. I can't see how you would be in a position to make a judgement on what is a fair houly rate for that work and saying £30 is random and arbitrary. The truth is, of course such work should be done on a job quotation baiss not an hourly rate.

So i assume by this you are saying the higher quotes are due to higher quality knowledge/experiance. Sorry but thats just an excuse. there are many jobs that are very simple and you still pay stupid money. And there are many guy that have same knowledge experiance and are in the sub 30 quid mark

I don't want to be confrontational here but a rational discussion would be a good idea.

Cheers

i have tried to be rational and not retorical. There is no way you are telling me that the guy charging sub 30 quid per hour is not going to do as good a job as the 60 quid an hour guy(in my experiance sometimes the cheaper guy does a better job.

BTW i prob would subcontract out if i was a plumber much prefer sitting on my backside for 15 quid per hour

btw i used to run a computer repair business. parts and service just like plumbing. Now parts came in at below wholesale, job was priced on time. Never priced on knowlege. but again thats the business model i based that business on. Each to there own. Profit was high on parts because cutomer could not obtain the parts cheaper than me. However i did fit parts supplied by them at same hourly rate

keystone

justjohn wrote: »

i have tried to be rational and not retorical. There is no way you are telling me that the guy charging sub 30 quid per hour is not going to do as good a job as the 60 quid an hour guy(in my experiance sometimes the cheaper guy does a better job.

I didn't say that.

The point about the overpriced job being beaten by £3k is well made. If the £3k man is overpricing he will go bust because noone will buy from him. If the £1k man is making a loss he will also go bust because he isn't covering his costs nor paying his bills.

My point is this, and its probably a very fine none. It is not my position nor yours to say that anything over £ 30 an hour is overpriced because you don't know that it is. You may get a quoted price for a job of £90 plus parts from a guy who charges £ 30 an hour and does the job in 3 hours and the same £ 90 + parts quoted price from a guy who charges £ 45 an hour but can do it in two. If he's quoted you a price his hourly rate is irrelevant but on your criteria you'd bounce out the more expensive hourly rate and have to sit at home for an hour longer (costing you money) to get the same job done. What would be wrong is tgo be given the £ 90 price, ask him how long it will take and then say you'll only pay him £ 60 when you were previously happy for the £ 30 guy to take 3 hours to do it.

Cheers

diywhynot

Charge what the market will bear.

justjohn

keystone wrote: »

I didn't say that.

The point about the overpriced job being beaten by £3k is well made. If the £3k man is overpricing he will go bust because noone will buy from him. If the £1k man is making a loss he will also go bust because he isn't covering his costs nor paying his bills.

The trades are full of overpriced/high profit quotes every 4 out 5 quotes are overpriced/high. So there is still money to be made over pricing. Supply,demand , competitivnes etc
And the guy with the keen quotes are not making a loss lol

My point is this, and its probably a very fine none. It is not my position nor yours to say that anything over £ 30 an hour is overpriced because you don't know that it is. You may get a quoted price for a job of £90 plus parts from a guy who charges £ 30 an hour and does the job in 3 hours and the same £ 90 + parts quoted price from a guy who charges £ 45 an hour but can do it in two. If he's quoted you a price his hourly rate is irrelevant but on your criteria you'd bounce out the more expensive hourly rate and have to sit at home for an hour longer (costing you money) to get the same job done. What would be wrong is tgo be given the £ 90 price, ask him how long it will take and then say you'll only pay him £ 60 when you were previously happy for the £ 30 guy to take 3 hours to do it.

Should average out you know how long it will take approx. Good plumber will compensate for his lack of knowledge/speed on doing a job to be competitive.
Over priced jobs are not always over priced due to the time it takes to complete the job. just look at BG.

The price/quote is a total calculation. Hourly rate is just one factor. it effects the whole quote.

Cheers

Does not matter how you massage the figures its the end total price the customer is interested. And there are ways to get that lower and higher.

justjohn

diywhynot wrote: »

Charge what the market will bear.

yes ....but don't deny thats what you are doing or there are people that do not do it lol

keystone

justjohn wrote: »

Never priced on knowlege. but again thats the business model i based that business on.

I didn't suggest you did the point I was making is that you are not just paying for time and shouldn't try and measure it that way. You can pay a dolt £30 an hour and get nothing practical out of him. You can pay a tradesman £30 a hour and get aone hell of a lot out of him.

Each to there own.

Exactly.

Profit was high on parts because cutomer could not obtain the parts cheaper than me.

So whats good for the goose is good for the gander?

However i did fit parts supplied by them at same hourly rate

So?

What you mean is that your hourly rate was sufficient to cover all your overheads so anything you made on parts was pure profit and it was acceptable when you were doing it. Something is starting not to compute here.

Cheers

keystone

justjohn wrote: »

Does not matter how you massage the figures its the end total price the customer is interested.

Isn't that what I said.

And there are ways to get that lower and higher.

By nickel and diming after the event when a quote was given?

Cheers

diywhynot

justjohn wrote: »

yes ....but don't deny thats what you are doing or there are people that do not do it lol

I look at a job, send a quote, customer says yes or no: those who say 'what if I supplied...', 'what if I laboured....', 'I've got other quotes cheaper than you...'can find someone else to dance to the tune.;)