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Retired people could work for pensions..
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By 11 I could identify who was successful and who wasn't. I was pretty much spot on with my assessment.
The ones who did alright were the ones smart enough not to doss around, fight and instead concentrate on the teacher.
About 80% were dossiers. The remaining 20% do well to this day.
In the original scheme the 1/7 was grammar streamed. 2/7 was regularly reviewed to see if any late developers could be upgraded. It was probably only 5,6+ 7 that were low achievers.
The original idea was pretty good it was just screwed by subsequent governments and catchment engineering."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
By 11 I could identify who was successful and who wasn't. I was pretty much spot on with my assessment.
The ones who did alright were the ones smart enough not to doss around, fight and instead concentrate on the teacher.
About 80% were dossiers. The remaining 20% do well to this day.
That is utter rubbish and people develop at different ages.0 -
grizzly1911 wrote: »Comprehensives still had streaming and "grammar sets" in the times of the youngest boomers, who would be filling positions in parliament now.
It really depends on the comps that pupils went/go to. In my original home town therewas a gulf between the best and worst (still is).
I know a number of peers, who went to the grammar school, who weren't particularly bright when they reached O and A levels.
I accept if you can afford to send bright pupils to good public schools they are likely to achieve more. Lots of half baked kids go to lesser public schools too.
Catchment areas make a big difference too. My school, one of the first purpose built comprehensives, used to draw from an affluent village, which then became a suburb of the local large town. After I left, because of village demographics, they started to draw pupils from a wedge cut from the centre of town pulling in poorer disadvantaged neighbourhoods and the school slid down the rankings.
Good kids will still make it, unless the school is pants. They are just in fewer numbers, spread across schools, compared to cherry picked, concentrated pupils, in one school. With the internet the ability to develop and acquire knowledge isn't restricted to dog eared text books and the teachers alone. It isn't just the schools responsibility.
Not necessarily. Even bright kids can have special educational needs, such as dyslexia or Aspergers, and the brightest will not be stretched enough, there is just not the mechanism to do so.
My son, although bright, had undiagnosed Aspergers, but his dad was a teacher and his school was judged 'outstanding' by OFSTED, so he had some support to achieve some decent GCSEs. At a specialist school he would have done even better. At a bog-standard comp, and without a dad as a teacher, he would have sunk without trace, because he would just sit quietly and do no work, and he would have been allowed to do so.
Ideally, every child should get the education they need, whether that be a 'Grammar', or less academic, or basic skills , or one-to-one, or practical or 'hothousing'. This could be judged on continuous assessment, because all kids develop at different stages.
One size fits all only suits the average, and leads to mediocrity as I said before.(AKA HRH_MUngo)
Member #10 of £2 savers club
Imagine someone holding forth on biology whose only knowledge of the subject is the Book of British Birds, and you have a rough idea of what it feels like to read Richard Dawkins on theology: Terry Eagleton0 -
That is utter rubbish and people develop at different ages.
Show me someone in the media who made it from scratch past the age of 40. In other words, not been trying for years and got a break, truly turned their life around past that age and made it.
You either have the genetic makeup to want to better yourself or you don't.
As a socialist, I am sure you will disagree.
I am sure they have different sets in comprehensives don't they? Something like learning to draw with crayon to doing their ten times table at 16?
Seriously, they grade ability at comprehensive level don't they, having a number of different classes based on ability? And these sets stay till gcse?0 -
Show me someone in the media who made it from scratch past the age of 40. In other words, not been trying for years and got a break, truly turned their life around past that age and made it.
You either have the genetic makeup to want to better yourself or you don't.
As a socialist, I am sure you will disagree.
I am sure they have different sets in comprehensives don't they? Something like learning to draw with crayon to doing their ten times table at 16?
Seriously, they grade ability at comprehensive level don't they, having a number of different classes based on ability? And these sets stay till gcse?
They are graded in comprehensive schools - I went to one and we certainly were then, my children went to one and they were and my grandson goes to an Academy and they are too.
We were put into forms in the first year, they were 1A, 1B, 1C, 1D & 1R (remedial I guess) and were in these forms right through school - term work and end of year exams were the decider in whether you moved up a grade or down.
My children had mixed ability tutor groups - some lessons were done as a tutor group, art, drama, PE, music but for other lessons like maths, english, science, French etc, they were setted by ability.
The grandson's school is similar to my childrens' with mixed ability tutor groups, they used a combination of the SATS scores from year 6, work done in class up to the October half term and internal exams set before the half term. So for the first 6 or 7 weeks they weren't setted at all but after the October half term they were for maths, english, science etc. He started in September.0 -
About 80% were dossiers. The remaining 20% do well to this day.
And dodgy ones at that, no doubt.Please stay safe in the sun and learn the A-E of melanoma: A = asymmetry, B = irregular borders, C= different colours, D= diameter, larger than 6mm, E = evolving, is your mole changing? Most moles are not cancerous, any doubts, please check next time you visit your GP.
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Show me someone in the media who made it from scratch past the age of 40. In other words, not been trying for years and got a break, truly turned their life around past that age and made it.
You either have the genetic makeup to want to better yourself or you don't.
As a socialist, I am sure you will disagree.
I am sure they have different sets in comprehensives don't they? Something like learning to draw with crayon to doing their ten times table at 16?
Seriously, they grade ability at comprehensive level don't they, having a number of different classes based on ability? And these sets stay till gcse?
There is a big difference between a child of 11 and an adult of forty and your condescending attitude says a lot about you. I fail my 11 pass but went on to get degree level qualifications and watched many people who had pass fail along the way.
Out of interest what type of school did you go to.
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Just remind us which Education Secretary opened the most comprehsensive schools in the last century?
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Also the new Education Secretary in 1970 was elected on a policy (Tory manifesto) that:
This hardly seems like a plan to reverse the Wilson Government's policy!
The route to the top always was severely curtained by private education and the eleven plus system that supported it. The entrance to university was always limited by social status. Even when you passed the exams the additional interviews or entrance exams favoured those who "knew the system", those coached in what was expected and those thought to be "one of us". I would say that there is more opportunity to reach the top now than then, but it still favours those from the "right" background. Why do you think some of the "better schools" want to interview applicants and the parents?
The 11 plus was certainly a dreadful selection method and helped the cause of comprehensivisation. Absolutely true that this is the first Tory led government to try to reverse the trend of deterioration in state education -- shame on the ones who did not including Heath and Thatcher. Heath probably had the excuse that the perils of comprehensiveness has not yet become evident and selection would staill have been unpopular. Thatcher had much less that excuse and just wasn't interested. Some of the last paragraph is no doubt true, but the fact remains we now have more domination by Old Etonians etc than we used to. The gap in quality of outcome between the independents schools and most state schools is far too large and more than it was between them and state grammar schools. In fact some state grammar schools were better than many independents, and some of the few that remain still are.No-one would remember the Good Samaritan if he'd only had good intentions. He had money as well.
The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.
Margaret Thatcher0 -
There is a big difference between a child of 11 and an adult of forty and your condescending attitude says a lot about you. I fail my 11 pass but went on to get degree level qualifications and watched many people who had pass fail along the way.
Out of interest what type of school did you go to.
Start throwing the teddies out of the cot and trying to be insulting the first time I challenge your Socialist viewpoint why dont you?
My point remains unchallenged. The fact that you turned yourself around and got a degree proves the point that there was absolutely nothing wrong with the grammar school model. In fact, it probably gave you the kick up the rear you needed; I bet jealousy of grammar school kids gave you a competitive edge that you needed to put the work in academically.0 -
Start throwing the teddies out of the cot and trying to be insulting the first time I challenge your Socialist viewpoint why dont you?
My point remains unchallenged. The fact that you turned yourself around and got a degree proves the point that there was absolutely nothing wrong with the grammar school model. In fact, it probably gave you the kick up the rear you needed; I bet jealousy of grammar school kids gave you a competitive edge that you needed to put the work in academically.
The problem you have is that you have no experiance of the old system and how it failed lots of children. I am all for streaming children by ability but you need a system where things aren't set in stone at 11. Perhaps it would be better to look for ways of improving present system than going back to an old system that benefited a few at the expense of the many.
I'd rather be a socialist if that is what if I am than someone who has no empathy.0
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