I've been sacked by nPower as a customer - should I be concerned?

Terrylw1

rjsdavis wrote: »

From what I've read so far, I'd be inclined to agree!

Would be most interested to read what Terry's thoughts are on the position that I find myself in, and the best next step for an optimal personal outcome in this scenario....

Well, you can always check who your registered supplier is. So, you could contact the distributor to ask who the current supplier is.

If it turns out its still Npower, which it will be, there are only 2 possibilities:

1 - Npower have closed your account but are continuing to pay the distributor but have decided not to bill you.

2 - Npower are completely incorrect in their actions and you remain in contract but they have closed your account in error.

In the case of 1:

- would any business operate a policy of intentionally making a permanent future loss?
- they are still bound by the SLC that covers safety inspections, so aren't they announcing their intention to purposely fail this area of their licence which means they would be reported to Ofgem.
- even if they said, "now please leave us", how can they enforce it? You could take your time knowing you are getting free energy.

In the case of the more likely number 2:

- upon finding the error, someone may try and back bill it all and say "we are very sorry, X employee made a mistake".
- by ignoring following this up, you are guaranteed to have a large bill shocker later and they won't care much other than to apologise. This route in my mind would also mean a weakened consumer position as a court would see a consumer knowing its free energy although they may make allowances for the confusion caused by the supplier, leading to a settlement of some sort.

I don't believe they can and will do this. I believe this is a major error by someone and in scenario 2 above, it could bite you later causing you more stress and they may choose not to be understanding...as you've already experienced with the warrants which shouldn't be happening.

You could use such as error to push for compensation, report them to Ofgem for attempting to breach the Deemed contract (plus the other ramifications such as safety inspections) and you could argue that you should be free to leave without prejudice (no supplier right to objection regardless of debt) so you can get away from them.

Have you seem Undaunted's thread "Npower versus the vulnerable"? If you read that one, you will see a consumer who actually wants what they are offering you but they won't and that has reached the court so its gone to the highest complaint level and beyond. You will also see my posts stating why the customer can't have it, which match my posts on here about why Npower can't do it. It would seem very strange for Npower to operate complete opposites at this level, which points to errors.

tichtich

Thanks, Terry, for your detailed information. I'm sorry I've hijacked rjs's thread a bit, but as you've been kind enough to respond in detail to both of us, it seems there's no harm done.

I think UK Power Networks (my local distribution company) told me that my chosen supplier needs to send them a DO167 to get my electricity meter registered. Does that sound right to you?

I applied three weeks ago to switch both gas and elec to Scottish Power, explained the situation and asked them to get my elec meter registered. They seem to be taking their time. When I inquired after 3 weeks what was happening, I got the impression they hadn't yet done anything, as I had to explain all over again. From what you're saying, it seems like there's no reason to hurry them, since the longer they take, the more electricity I'll get before the meter is registered, and with luck I won't pay for it. On the other hand, I probably won't start getting my gas at the fixed rate I applied for until the elec meter is registered, since the rate is only available with dual fuel. The longer SP faffs about, the more gas I'm buying at EDF's variable rate (my present supplier) which is higher. Oh well.

Terrylw1

tichtich wrote: »

Thanks, Terry, for your detailed information. I'm sorry I've hijacked rjs's thread a bit, but as you've been kind enough to respond in detail to both of us, it seems there's no harm done.

I think UK Power Networks (my local distribution company) told me that my chosen supplier needs to send them a DO167 to get my electricity meter registered. Does that sound right to you?

I applied three weeks ago to switch both gas and elec to Scottish Power, explained the situation and asked them to get my elec meter registered. They seem to be taking their time. When I inquired after 3 weeks what was happening, I got the impression they hadn't yet done anything, as I had to explain all over again. From what you're saying, it seems like there's no reason to hurry them, since the longer they take, the more electricity I'll get before the meter is registered, and with luck I won't pay for it. On the other hand, I probably won't start getting my gas at the fixed rate I applied for until the elec meter is registered, since the rate is only available with dual fuel. The longer SP faffs about, the more gas I'm buying at EDF's variable rate (my present supplier) which is higher. Oh well.

The D0168 is sent by the supplier to request a new MPAN be generated which involves creating your address on the distributors registration system.

This isn't a registration, which is archived via a D0055 but this is where the MPAN is already in place with your address on the distributors registration system. This is how a switch starts.

Your scenario is a new connection, but its a retrospective one. Regardless of this, the record can only be created going forward. So the D0055 part comes after creating the MPAN.

So, first they get this part out of the way. Then the supplier appoints the agents for meter reading and maintenance. At this point, there will be no meter details so the supplier will need to send out their Meter Operator to take them since this agent needs technical data about the meter that you can't give over the phone. This agent will then send this onto your supplier and the meter reading agent. At this point a start reading is also required which should have been taken by the engineer who came out, but at worst it could be one you give later if that went wrong.

You pay the supplier only from this date & reading. Even if that Meter Operator backdates the meter installation date, which is unlikely in this scenario, the supplier cannot apply standing charges until their registration date (which they did shortly after creating your MPAN, potentially a couple of weeks after) so scrutinise this.

Any energy used on that meter prior to the registration date by the supplier (not the MPAN creation date which is earlier) is for the distributor to charge. Like I said though, when this issue was rife in elec, distributors didn't bill...its a grey are.

This is a rare scenario these days as they stopped it occurring in July 2000. Distributors caused this so the process was changed to prevent distributors from connecting the meters.

Its more likely:

- your MPAN was disconnected in error. The distributor could still find you but I don't know about any archiving of old records that they may do.

- your address has been incorrectly changed, most likely by a supplier, so you exist but no one can find your address.

So, rule this out first. Did the distributor search for your address and meter number? The meter numbers can be incorrect in their databases, a known industry issue since they launched the process to give them this data, but its a way to trace an address change error.

Another method is to check for plot numbers in your street incase your address hasn't been converted over after the Royal Mail created the full address.

I wouldn't advocate waiting of course, but its very likely it will remain free for now in elec, gas may be different in this scenario as the distributor controls seem tighter. Your supplier definitely can't back bill you though as the industry settlement process just won't allow for it...unless they entered a much lower reading as your opening reading but this would be incorrect and very underhand.

tichtich

Thanks for all that, Terry. I was in fact told "D0168", not "D0167". That was my mistake.

Terrylw1 wrote: »

So, rule this out first. Did the distributor search for your address and meter number? The meter numbers can be incorrect in their databases, a known industry issue since they launched the process to give them this data, but its a way to trace an address change error.

I think the distributor did search for both address and meter serial number, but didn't find either. I believe there has been some confusion over the address, perhaps because the Royal Mail treats several flats in this house as a single address.

I was thinking of ringing up the distributor again to check whether they have received a D0168 from Scottish Power yet, and I can ask them at the same time to check again for whether I already have an MPAN.

Terrylw1

tichtich wrote: »

Thanks for all that, Terry. I was in fact told "D0168", not "D0167". That was my mistake.


I think the distributor did search for both address and meter serial number, but didn't find either. I believe there has been some confusion over the address, perhaps because the Royal Mail treats several flats in this house as a single address.

I was thinking of ringing up the distributor again to check whether they have received a D0168 from Scottish Power yet, and I can ask them at the same time to check again for whether I already have an MPAN.

The Royal Mail doing that will cause such a problem. Its even possible that the address has a MPAN but the distributor or supplier at the time decided to disconnect it as they thought it was spurious. If they investigated differing meter numbers, this shouldn't happen but its a situation that's left open to the quality of the people doing the investigation.

I suggest you discuss this address issue with the distributor. I think you will need Royal Mail to change this or you could experience errors such as the disconnection mentioned. Having the same address as your neighbour will also open you up to all sorts of errors with meter readings, meter numbers, being switched in error due to your neighbour trying to switch.

A supplier can request a MPAN but the distributor has the final say on its creation so by ensuring you need one with the distributor, it will be safe for a supplier to do it. It could easily be turned down though if one of your neighbours has a MPAN with the same address or it could be disconnected for being spurious shortly afterwards where the distributor sees the existing one.

Getting one generated is a quick affair, likely around 5 working days unless they have backlogs. The long delays that can be experienced in this scenario come from suppliers multiple depts doing each part prior to the billing guys getting you set up which will include the meter detail checks.

Don't let them use a backdated reading, that will mess up your energy history for years until your lower advances bring it back inline. They are not entitled to any energy prior to your registration date (what you may know as the switch date from on here).