RAF lad gets Fine from Service Station

torontoboy45

nicechap wrote: »

From what I've read ignore is still a valid piece of advice. There's two ways it could pan out, either the PPC continue with their letter chain and let the matter drop, or take the RK to court, whereby all the previous defences come into play, (its a penalty, not a recovery of costs, no interest in land, never entered a contract etc etc.

Just because some people think that appealing to POPLA is potentially a good ruse to cost the PPC money is not a reason to encourage newbies to become guinea pigs for a campaign.

Maybe once enough people have voluntarily explored the POPLA route and established its consequences then newbies could be given an informed choice as to what they want to do.

my guess is that exploring POPLA won't be confined to victims.
PPC's too, will be keen to test the modus operandii of a body that has yet to come up to speed.

that said, which way forward for the PPC's? I see a potential strengthening of the PPC hand in court, especially if they're facing a victim with a less than well-prepared defence and justice gullible beak is in the chair.

example 1. victim ignores everything. court summons. grovelling PPC addresses court: 'we're extremely disappointed that this matter has reached court. the defendant had a robust 2-stage appeals process at his disposal but failed to use it. we believe the defendant has acted unreasonably by not acting at all. so we felt compelled to bring this matter to your honour's attention in the hope of a money-spinning...I mean wise and just ruling.'

example 2. victim follows appeal process and is ruled against.
back in front of justice beak. PPC up on his hind legs: 'we spent a considerable length of time (3 secs) studying the appeal and reached a conclusion favourable to ourselves. we were more than happy for the defendant to take this matter to a higher and independent authority, namely POPLA (your honour may have read about this august new body, between courses at his luncheon club). POPLA graciously upheld our original decision, so we would be much indebted to your honour if he could do the same. (and there's a particularly fine salmon awaiting our attention at the club.your honour may wish to join us, later).'

or am I just being alarmist?

bazster

Not alarmist at all, I can see either or both of those scenarios playing out at one time or another.

taffy056

Think you could be right there toronto, but who knows what will happen if things are just ignored. Doing nothing is a mistake in my opinion even if you are newbie. Advising just that is also unfair, things have changed we've got to move with that change, you got to advise people all the options not just the one where its the easy answer, people have a right to know all of it.

loadbang

Fergie76 wrote: »

When did you serve - 1980's? That might have been the case then, but certainly not now. You cannot be disciplined for debt. You can be put on warning for an administrative discharge if the debt is large enough, but certainly not for £60 speculative invoice, that has NO basis in law.

It isn't even a debt aqs you say, a "speculative invoice". If it was, he'd be in a whole load of trouble as it is against the law for a service person to have credit or be indebted, the same is with a policeman or Church of England vicars. So yes, you can be disciplined for debt if you are in the services.

bazster

loadbang wrote: »

It isn't even a debt. If it was, he'd be in a whole load of trouble as it is against the law for a service person to have credit or be indebted, the same is with a policeman or Church of England vicars. So yes, you can be disciplined for debt if you are in the services.

What, even a mortgage? You can't get a bank loan to buy a car?

A copper I know just bought a house, I'm pretty sure he didn't have the cash to buy it outright!

taffy056

loadbang wrote: »

It isn't even a debt. If it was, he'd be in a whole load of trouble as it is against the law for a service person to have credit or be indebted, the same is with a policeman or Church of England vicars. So yes, you can be disciplined for debt if you are in the services.

Against the law to have credit ? Don't be ridiculous are you seriously suggesting that no military personnel has mortgages, credit cards or loans ?

torontoboy45

taffy056 wrote: »

Think you could be right there toronto, but who knows what will happen if things are just ignored. Doing nothing is a mistake in my opinion even if you are newbie. Advising just that is also unfair, things have changed we've got to move with that change, you got to advise people all the options not just the one where its the easy answer, people have a right to know all of it.

agreed. POPLA is the gamechanger, even if - for the minute - we don't know how. it could become an efficient, truly independent service, creating all sorts of health issues for the PPC's. or it could prove just as supine and barely fit-for-purpose as the press complaints commission.

until we can be sure, helpful and meaningful advice can't be given.

but...

ignoring doesn't sound so good anymore. for as long as justice beak believes that POPLA does what it says on the tin, he may well take a dim view of anyone who fails to use it. 'if it looks like negligence and it feels like negligence',etc.

which would leave the PPC's crowing like the cockerill that woke me up at 5 this morning.

Tobster86

loadbang wrote: »

he'd be in a whole load of trouble as it is against the law for a service person to have credit

An example of why this forum needs complimenting with 'no thanks' buttons.

Mistral001

taffy056 wrote: »

Against the law to have credit ? Don't be ridiculous are you seriously suggesting that no military personnel has mortgages, credit cards or loans ?

There is a difference between credit and loans and a debt. BTW not paying a debt can lead to a charge of professional misconduct in many professions, as is filing for personal bankruptcy.

taffy056

Mistral001 wrote: »

There is a difference between credit and loans and a debt. BTW not paying a debt can lead to a charge of professional misconduct in many professions, as is filing for personal bankruptcy.

This is what was quoted above

it is against the law for a service person to have credit...

That simply is not true!