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Minimising private care home costs
Comments
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seven-day-weekend wrote: »The £23k includes the value of your home. However, if only one of you goes into care, it won't be counted (as you are both over 60).
No, the £23K is a separate issue. It is ringfenced. In the event of your house being used to pay for care fees, an allowance of £23K is made. They will use all the proceeds of your home except the £23K which can pass to your estate.
Also Age is irrelevant - monetary calculations are based on need and not age.
I am 61, my OH is 55.
OH is in a nursing home. We have been through all this assessment and means testing milarky. Unless each local authority is different, which I doubt, here is roughly how it currently works.
In a partnership or marriage when the first person goes into care then for all intents and purposes you will both now be classed as single.
Person 1 goes into care. Essentially all of person 1's income bar £22-50 per week is taken away and regarded as a contribution towards fees. This will include state pension, half of any occupational pension, ESA or IB, any other pensions such as War Pensions etc DLA or AA will cease. If you are in receipt of Higher Rate Mobility Allowance you will be able to keep this.
Person 2, the one who stays behind in the family home, will lose any Carer's Allowance if payable, but will be allowed to keep half of person 1's occupational pension if the occupational pension scheme has that facility. Person 2 will be able to keep any salary or wages they earn in full.
Re the house - the house will not be seized to pay for care, because this would make person 2 homeless.
Capital sums - Under £14,250 you will not need to make a contribution to state funding. Between £14,250 to £23,500 a sliding scale operates. Over £23,500 you will need to fund yourself, all state funding will cease.
If you own a second property, any BTL's or holiday home they will be classed as assets, the monetary value will be taken into account when calculations are made.
If the nursing/care home of your choice costs more than your Local Authority can pay you can pay a top up fee.
Care at home charges and contributions are worked out on the same basis.
next scenario
Person 1 has died. Person 2 needs to go into a home. All assets over £23,000 will be used to pay for your care, including your house.
If you prepare early enough you can protect 50% of your house value, plus £23,00 by putting your house on a Tenants in Common basis. Do not attempt to do this without proper legal advice because there some caveats to be taken under consideration. This option will not suit everyone.
Nursing Home Fee Help is broken down into three components.
Lowest level is Personal care - Paid for by Social Services - feeding, washing, etc
Intermediate Level - Additional Nursing component - Paid by Social Services directly to the Nursing home - this is for someone with more complex needs and who will require proper nursing and not just personal care.
Advanced - Continuing Health Care - paid for by the PCT - for the very sick who will have very complex care needs.
Both Nursing Care and Continuing Health Care are subject to medical assessment.
Continuing Health Care will cover all needs irrespective of whether the recipient is in a nursing home or is being nursed at home. If the recipient is in a nursing home then all fees would be paid in full by the PCT. No top up fee would need to be paid no matter how "expensive" the home.
My OH is now severely disabled and yet "failed" the last Continuing Care Assessment. Without wishing to appear too cynical I would venture to say that someone would need to be practically at death's door to "pass" this assessment. PCT's do not seem to want to cough up for this one.
Hope this is of help.
PS Edited to point out - A care home is for personal care only, they do not have nursing facilities. A designated nursing home is required for those with more advanced or complex needs.
PPs Edited again to amend the figures for capital. The figures I quoted were for 2011. Amended figures are post April 2012 so should be current.0 -
flyingember wrote: »Care homes are just too expensive and the growth in the older population will make the bill unaffordable. ]Also residential care is not good for people, often they lose their independence and capability very shortly after entering. Much better outcomes for can be obtained by delivering care to them in their own homes.
I can relate to this because I have seen a shocking escalation of my husband's condition since he has been in care. I cared for him for three years until my own health broke down under the strain.
I am currently investigating what is available so I can bring him home again.
It is good advice to move to an "age friendly" house/flat while you are still young and fit enough to manage the move with ease and well before any health crisis. Depending on you health, you may not have to make this move for well over 20 years. Having savings will allow you greater choice in who wipes your bum when the time comes.
'm about your age and when I retire I hope to enjoy my later years by making sure I have a home with can be modified for my needs in a supportive environment and some savings to pay for quality care.
Mrsc
I think this is the way forward. My house is on the market - I will ensure that my next house is "future proof" - wheel chair access, etc.
With a bit of foresight and planning I would think it would possible to remain in your home for considerable time, unless of course dementia sets in.
As I mentioned above I am looking to bringing my husband home. I have looked into the possibility of employing a live in carer. This sounds more expensive than it is. It actually works out at around the same price of the average care home.
If the need arose in the future for myself - then that is the route I would try and take. I've seen quite enough of care homes thanks all the same. If I succumb to dementia then I will top myself before it takes a hold.0 -
That's a great post, lessonlearned.
I just have a couple of comments/questions:lessonlearned wrote: »Person 2, the one who stays behind in the family home, will lose any Carer's Allowance if payable, but will be allowed to keep half of person 1's occupational pension if the occupational pension scheme has that facility. Person 2 will be able to keep any salary or wages they earn in full.
When my Dad went into a care home last year, he had a small occupational pension which Mum could have kept 50% of.
After doing our 'sums', we elected for Dad to retian the whole 100% as Mum taking 50% would have tipped her over the Guarantee Pension Credit limit.lessonlearned wrote: »
Capital sums - Under £10,000 you will not need to make a contribution to state funding. Between £10,000 to £23,000 a sliding scale operates. Over £23,000 you will need to fund yourself, all state funding will cease.
Isn't the upper limit (i.e. the figure above which you have to fully fund your care home fees £23,500 not £23,000.
My comments/questions are based on personal experience when my Dad was in a care home mid 2011 in England.
I know some rules are slightly different depending where you live.0 -
Thanks very much to lessonlearned for this clear and unambiguous explanation. This should be made into a 'sticky' because this type of question comes up so often, maybe worded in different ways but essentially asking very similar questions as the title of this thread suggests.
For DH and me, if one of us died and the other was considering going into care, at present we haven't got as much as £23.5K in savings but we do have above the £10K mentioned so we'd be on the 'sliding scale'. The value of this bungalow would, I assume, be reduced by the fact that it has a 'lifetime mortgage' on it which would need to be paid off before its value could be used for any other purpose.
There is also the problem that, however much it may be valued optimistically with a view to using that value, quite often when older people live in a house for any length of time it does need some restorative work done on it. Things can get neglected once you're no longer physically able to do e.g. painting and decorating, the garden can get neglected, you name it.[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Æ[/FONT]r ic wisdom funde, [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]æ[/FONT]r wear[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]ð[/FONT] ic eald.
Before I found wisdom, I became old.0 -
lessonlearned wrote: »I think this is the way forward. My house is on the market - I will ensure that my next house is "future proof" - wheel chair access, etc.
With a bit of foresight and planning I would think it would possible to remain in your home for considerable time, unless of course dementia sets in.
As I mentioned above I am looking to bringing my husband home. I have looked into the possibility of employing a live in carer. This sounds more expensive than it is. It actually works out at around the same price of the average care home.
It's a very difficult job. I've done some of this 'live-in caring'.If the need arose in the future for myself - then that is the route I would try and take. I've seen quite enough of care homes thanks all the same. If I succumb to dementia then I will top myself before it takes a hold.
I sympathise. Particularly with regard to DH and myself. We are so much on the same wavelength, what hurts one of us hurts the other, we read each other's thoughts. I've survived one widowhood, but this is different. We were on the same wavelength from day one, which has never happened before with anyone previously. I can't visualise going on without him. Just cannot. Full stop.[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Æ[/FONT]r ic wisdom funde, [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]æ[/FONT]r wear[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]ð[/FONT] ic eald.
Before I found wisdom, I became old.0 -
That's a great post, lessonlearned.
I just have a couple of comments/questions:
I didn't think it had anything to do with the pension company, isn't it just part of the Council financial assessment?
What I meant was but didn't perhaps make clear is that some occupational schemes do not have the facility for a 50/50 split, or it may be that the recipient has not made provision for this.
My husband's pension scheme offered a choice either 100% to the owner of the scheme or a 50/50 split. My husband opted for the latter.
If someone has elected for the full 100% share would the council be able to automatically go ahead with the 50/50 option. Sorry I don't know. I was just pointing out the possibility that it might not be possible.
Oh dear that sounds so long and garbled - it is all so complicated. It ties me in knots sometimes - it's like wading through treacle.
Re the figures you have quoted - they may well be different in other areas and I may not have been accurate to the last £500 or so because I was quoting from memory. I didn't double check - my post was not meant to be a difinitive guide just a rough outline.0 -
TBH Margaret I cannot bear seeing my husband in a nursing home - it hurts me so much that I had to give in in the end, but I could no longer do it. He needs two sometimes three person handling and it's just too much for one person.
I visit every day and still oversee much of his personal care. Some of the carers leave much to be desired and I'm constantly having to do things they "forget" or do so inadequately that I insist they come back and do it again. I'm probably getting a very bad name for myself, they probably think I'm a dragon. I don't care what they think of me I won't see him neglected.
I just wish I could find a way of bringing him home.
Ah well - time to get cracking and start the day.0 -
margaretclare wrote: »It's a very difficult job. I've done some of this 'live-in caring'.
I sympathise. Particularly with regard to DH and myself. We are so much on the same wavelength, what hurts one of us hurts the other, we read each other's thoughts. I've survived one widowhood, but this is different. We were on the same wavelength from day one, which has never happened before with anyone previously. I can't visualise going on without him. Just cannot. Full stop.
I was lucky enought to meet the person I am on the same wavelength with when I was 21. I'm so glad you finallly met that person MC.
And I agree absolutely with the last part of your post.(AKA HRH_MUngo)
Member #10 of £2 savers club
Imagine someone holding forth on biology whose only knowledge of the subject is the Book of British Birds, and you have a rough idea of what it feels like to read Richard Dawkins on theology: Terry Eagleton0 -
Right -= I've just doubled checked - wading through the mountains of paperwork:rotfl:
These are post April 2012 figures so should be current.
Capital up to £14,250 is excluded from all calculations
£23.250 - full payment of costs
between the two figures a sliding scale operates
I will go back and amend my first post.
Sorry for any misinformation.0 -
lessonlearned wrote: »TBH Margaret I cannot bear seeing my husband in a nursing home - it hurts me so much that I had to give in in the end, but I could no longer do it. He needs two sometimes three person handling and it's just too much for one person.
I visit every day and still oversee much of his personal care. Some of the carers leave much to be desired and I'm constantly having to do things they "forget" or do so inadequately that I insist they come back and do it again. I'm probably getting a very bad name for myself, they probably think I'm a dragon. I don't care what they think of me I won't see him neglected.
I just wish I could find a way of bringing him home.
Ah well - time to get cracking and start the day.
I am so sorry. Do think it through though - bringing him home I mean. Even with one live-in carer, as he needs 2 and sometimes 3 people to handle him, this may become more difficult than you can visualise at the moment.
Even a live-in carer cannot be on duty 24/7. When I did that job, 2 weeks at a time then relieved by someone else, we were supposed to have a night's sleep (unless stated that it was nights as well as days) and a 2-hour break in the afternoon, as well as being able to eat a meal uninterrupted. As you can appreciate, all this often didn't happen. You also have to consider all the health and safety implications, damage to someone's back etc.
One example: I went to stay with an old lady. She was tiny, all bones like a little bird, but totally 'out of it'. I was supposed to put her to bed. She wouldn't go until her brother came home. 'He was out and she couldn't go to bed until she'd said good night to him'. I'd already been told that her brother had died 20 years earlier. Eventually I persuaded her that I'd send him in to say 'good night' when he came in and before she went to sleep. Her chair was on a polished wood floor. I went to help her up - as I said, she weighed almost nothing - but she suddenly slumped back in her chair and put all her weight on me unexpectedly and the chair slid. The following morning I could barely move, my back had seized up. I contacted the agency and was barely believed. 'Oh she weighs hardly anything, you must have done something wrong, poor old lady...' Be that as it may, I was never again able to take on anything that involved lifting or moving anything heavier than a newborn baby - my back has never recovered from that and other similar.[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Æ[/FONT]r ic wisdom funde, [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]æ[/FONT]r wear[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]ð[/FONT] ic eald.
Before I found wisdom, I became old.0
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