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Sambucus_Nigra

Nicki wrote: »

If you like your job, or feel a responsibility for how you do it, a lot of people in professional/managerial jobs don't. Its not just a case of the boss frowning on it, but sometimes a commitment to the role you do.

When I was working as a solicitor, I rarely took my full entitlement and nor did most of my colleagues. My DH who I talked about earlier is in a similar type of job. Friends who are barristers, doctors and in upper management also may or may not take their full entitlement every year.

5.6 weeks holiday per year is a right, not an obligation as far as employee's are concerned, just like the working time directive.

I love my job, take great responsibility in it, have been a senior manager and a director. But I still took and take my holiday. It's just as important for bosses to be refreshed and have time away from work as the uncaring, unresponsible minions that from your inference, are taking their leave.

threemuttleys

daska wrote: »

oops, sorry!

what for? No need to be sorry.

Has anyone ever been to New Romney? Caravan Park called Marlie?

Nicki

Sambucus_Nigra wrote: »

I love my job, take great responsibility in it, have been a senior manager and a director. But I still took and take my holiday. It's just as important for bosses to be refreshed and have time away from work as the uncaring, unresponsible minions that from your inference, are taking their leave.

You are quick to take offence.

A lot of people (not all before you jump on me) who aren't in the particular professional or managerial jobs I was thinking of have less control of their time, in that they work in places which have annual shut downs (eg education, childcare) or are rota'd (eg nursing midwifery) and therefore there are others there to pick up the slack when they are off. But a lot of professional and managerial positions are personal (eg legal, advisory) and the work will not and cannot be done properly by someone on a temporary basis if you are away. Hence if you are committed to the job and enjoy it and value your client, you might CHOOSE not to take your full holiday quota if this would impact on them (not that you can be forced not to).

If you want to take your full holiday and feel it is a necessity for your wellbeing then no one is criticising you for doing so, but equally no criticism needs to fall on those who choose to do differently.

As a senior lawyer for example, I would not have taken time off in the run up to a major trial or during the trial itself. So if I had a trial in June due to last 3 weeks, I would not have taken any time off from about end of February until the trial finished. If you added in to that the fact that we would need a token amount of cover in the office for emergencies over Christmas and Easter which might prevent me taking a 2 week break at either of those times, then it is quite feasible that in a year with more than one trial I would be unable to fit in 5.6 weeks holiday. Similarly, my husband who works in business would not go away if he were mid deal until after the deal completed, and handles more than one deal per year.

That was all my first post meant, and I am surprised that was not clear to someone in a managerial/directorial position reading it with an open mind, not looking for an argument.

Sambucus_Nigra

Nicki wrote: »

You are quick to take offence.

A lot of people (not all before you jump on me) who aren't in the particular professional or managerial jobs I was thinking of have less control of their time, in that they work in places which have annual shut downs (eg education, childcare) or are rota'd (eg nursing midwifery) and therefore there are others there to pick up the slack when they are off. But a lot of professional and managerial positions are personal (eg legal, advisory) and the work will not and cannot be done properly by someone on a temporary basis if you are away. Hence if you are committed to the job and enjoy it and value your client, you might CHOOSE not to take your full holiday quota if this would impact on them (not that you can be forced not to).

If you want to take your full holiday and feel it is a necessity for your wellbeing then no one is criticising you for doing so, but equally no criticism needs to fall on those who choose to do differently.

As a senior lawyer for example, I would not have taken time off in the run up to a major trial or during the trial itself. So if I had a trial in June due to last 3 weeks, I would not have taken any time off from about end of February until the trial finished. If you added in to that the fact that we would need a token amount of cover in the office for emergencies over Christmas and Easter which might prevent me taking a 2 week break at either of those times, then it is quite feasible that in a year with more than one trial I would be unable to fit in 5.6 weeks holiday. Similarly, my husband who works in business would not go away if he were mid deal until after the deal completed, and handles more than one deal per year.

That was all my first post meant, and I am surprised that was not clear to someone in a managerial/directorial position reading it with an open mind, not looking for an argument.

'If you like your job, or feel a responsibility for how you do it, a lot of people in professional/managerial jobs don't.'

Was your quote. I'd say that if you can't take 5.6 weeks leave then perhaps you need time management training.

Nicki

Sambucus_Nigra wrote: »

'If you like your job, or feel a responsibility for how you do it, a lot of people in professional/managerial jobs don't.'

Was your quote. I'd say that if you can't take 5.6 weeks leave then perhaps you need time management training.

And I would say if as a senior lawyer, you were happy to up sticks and leave for 2 weeks when preparing for a major trial or during it, then you don't feel any personal responsibility to your clients who are relying on you, or don't enjoy your job.

You would usually be instructed by a client about 2 years before a major trial (in my line of law) and would get about 4 or 5 months notice of the trial date (which is decided by the court not by the lawyers themselves). So there is no scope to manage time in the way you suggest. The only choice to be made is to look after your clients interests to the best of your ability, or not to (but sport a lovely sun tan).

Sambucus_Nigra

Nicki wrote: »

And I would say if as a senior lawyer, you were happy to up sticks and leave for 2 weeks when preparing for a major trial or during it, then you don't feel any personal responsibility to your clients who are relying on you, or don't enjoy your job.

You would usually be instructed by a client about 2 years before a major trial (in my line of law) and would get about 4 or 5 months notice of the trial date (which is decided by the court not by the lawyers themselves). So there is no scope to manage time in the way you suggest. The only choice to be made is to look after your clients interests to the best of your ability, or not to (but sport a lovely sun tan).

This is nothing to do with being a lawyer. And it's got nothing to do with sun tans either.

This is about you implying that people who take all their leave don't care or aren't responsible. Which is quite frankly - an appalling thing to say. 5.6 weeks leave is a legal entitlement and it is there to ensure that you don't get so wrapped up in work that you can't see anything else that goes on in the world - to get a break from work and to relax a bit.

HeatherintheHills

Nicki wrote: »

And I would say if as a senior lawyer, you were happy to up sticks and leave for 2 weeks when preparing for a major trial or during it, then you don't feel any personal responsibility to your clients who are relying on you, or don't enjoy your job.

You would usually be instructed by a client about 2 years before a major trial (in my line of law) and would get about 4 or 5 months notice of the trial date (which is decided by the court not by the lawyers themselves). So there is no scope to manage time in the way you suggest. The only choice to be made is to look after your clients interests to the best of your ability, or not to (but sport a lovely sun tan).

To be honest, your attitude is so unhealthy.

Is it really as you say or is it that you are actually afraid of not being at work? What could happen if you took some time off?

You might miss an opportunity?
You are competing with X and/or Y to see who takes the least time off work, as you do every year?
Your senior looks at you askance when you put in a leave application?
You need to feel needed?
They might manage without you, and God forbid, might realise it!

Those all important clients, bosses and colleagues will have forgotten all about you before the door closes behind you for the last time.

Take from that knowledge the strength to plough your own furrow rather than follow the corporate one ploughed for you. You might just extend your career and in the long term gain more respect for doing so.

Been there, done that, got the burnout, rebuilt my life and love what I have and do now. You only get one life, spend it carefully.

Sorry, I will stop taking the thread off topic now. Apologies OP.

Nicki

Sambucus_Nigra wrote: »

This is about you implying that people who take all their leave don't care or aren't responsible. Which is quite frankly - an appalling thing to say. 5.6 weeks leave is a legal entitlement and it is there to ensure that you don't get so wrapped up in work that you can't see anything else that goes on in the world - to get a break from work and to relax a bit.

No, I did not imply that at all. Quite the opposite but you have deliberately misinterpreted it.

YOU said there was something odd if people didn't take all their 5.6 weeks leave. I said that EVERYONE should take that amount of leave IF THEY WANTED TO, but that some people WOULD CHOOSE NOT TO. And gave examples of some of the kinds of people I know who do choose not to. I am the one advocating completely free choice with the right to take all the leave protected, you are the one chucking your toys out of the pram if everyone doesn't do the same as you.

Heather, I gave up work 8 years ago when my middle child was born with severe disabilities. Prior to that I did enjoy my career immensely and I remain good friends with a number of former colleagues and clients. Was absolutely not forgotten the moment I left, and the difference I made in their lives in some cases has definitely been remembered. You have based your post on Sambucas's distortion of what I said, rather than what was actually posted I feel.

All of this is in any case off topic. My first post in relation to this was discussing why not taking his full leave entitlement was not necessarily a sign that the OP's husband hated his wife and children as some suggested, and that is the only point which is relevant here, not what I, my husband or thousands of other working people CHOOSE to do each year in relation to their leave.

threemuttleys

I do not mean to be rude, but can we please get back on topic?

Many thanks

Sambucus_Nigra

Nicki wrote: »

No, I did not imply that at all. Quite the opposite but you have deliberately misinterpreted it.

YOU said there was something odd if people didn't take all their 5.6 weeks leave.

I did not say anyone was odd if they didn't take it. I asked someone why their OH wasn't taking it. And they replied that they were self employed. Well then, that's their decision.

You did however say 'If you like your job, or feel a responsibility for how you do it, a lot of people in professional/managerial jobs don't.'.

Which is a direct statement that people who take leave do not like their jobs, or do not feel a responsibility to it - are the ones that take leave. As if taking leave is a weakness. Which is probably why the OP is left on their own for a fortnight because their OH is being a big man by not taking leave to be with his family. Which only perpetuates the problem of people not taking leave that is their right by law.