Vodafone Mast Down since 2nd Sept - Still no service - Cancel contract under SOGA?

Herongull

Have you considered getting in touch with other people affected, and forming a group which can pay collectively for legal advice?

I'm no lawyer, but my amateur understanding is that once one party stops fulfilling one part of their contract (long term, not a temporary/short term outage), the contract becomes void (irrespective of what they say in their T&Cs).

If they have stopped providing the contracted service, then you can go elsewhere and you don't have to keep paying them for a service they are not providing.

Even their T&Cs say that you are trapped in the contract even if the service ceases then this would considered an unfair term, and a court would disregard it.

My understanding is that if they don't let you go without penalty, then you are in dispute with them. You are not paying due to the fact that you are disputing that you owe the money (cos you believe the contracted has been voided, but they believe you have keep paying even though they are no longer providing the service).

If they blacken your name with credit rating companies in this sort of dispute situation, this is defamatory and you can take them to court for defamation.

They are not allowed to send debt collection agencies round in a dispute situation. If they do this is harassment.

If you (and others in the same situation) can get a solictor to confirm or clarify these principles, then you are in strong position.

It is also worthwhile keeping up the publicity about this appalling situation, so that vodaphone will be named and shamed. The bad publicity may encourage them to just let everyone affected leave without a fight.

Given the situation, I suspect they haven't a leg to stand on (but you need professional advice to confirm this).

Herongull

Another suggestion:

Why don't you email Jane Frapwell (the vodaphone rep who has indicated publicly that genuine cases of people who are long term without a signal would be allowed to terminate their contract without penalty).

Explain the details of your case (with evidence) and give her a copy of the email that vodaphone sent you where they insist that you will have to pay a termination fee to transfer to another provider.

Explain (politely but firmly) that you feel this is totally unreasonable, but you are very concerned that you might be harassed by debt collectors or that vodaphone might put a black mark on your credit rating if you don't pay this unreasonable charge.

Ask her for a written assurance that none of this will not happen.

Hopefully she will then arrange for your case to be sorted out quickly to avoid a bad PR situation.

Her email can be found here:

http://www.vodafone.com/content/index/uk_corporate_responsibility/facts.html

You could also quote what Jane said to the customer services person who told you that you would have to pay a termination fee. Vodafone ought to have a consistent line on this.

It is always far better to resolve matters directly with the company if you can, to avoid the stress and financial risk of having a legal dispute.

iritchie

I haven't read the whole thread, so I don't know if anyone's already posted this, but Vodafone's own T's and C's, state that at this stage you can just write to them and end the agreement on the basis that they are no longer providing you with the service they are contracted to.
Would seem to fall within this category anyway from what I can gather;


11 Ending this agreement
a Either you or we may end this agreement by giving the other 30 days’ notice in writing. Your notice must include your mobile number and your signature or appropriate security details. You must pay the charges during the notice period.
b You may end this agreement by writing to us if:
• we don’t do something fundamental that we should have done under this agreement (for example, if there is a complete failure of the network for seven days in a row due to something we have done), within seven days of you asking us in writing;




So basically, write to them, and if they disagree with your version of events or want to offer any counter offer in terms fo compensation to keep you as a customer, then it is down to them, but you can't be expected to hang on indefinitely when they aren't providing you with coverage.

Buzby

trevorjdaniel wrote: »

not sure i quite follow you?

what service continues as before? the one i, and hundreds of others in CF64, havent been able to use for 3+ weeks?

and the statutory rights in the Sale of Services Act 1982 overides their contract as said a few times above?

The service, nationally continues as before. Just because it does not work in a particular location is already covered in the T&C's. you've already agreed to abide by. The fact CF64 is offline is unfortunate, but the loss is out with the networks control. If you took the phone elsewhere, it would work, so there is no negligence on their part.

SOGA has no relevance here, and of the Small Claims actions I have witnessed (7), no judge has upheld this as valid, so try it by all means but the outcome will work against you as your agreement stipulates the terms of service.

You have a right not to pay for services not rendered, so you can certainly expect a rebate on line rental and pro-rata on your bundle until the issue is resolved, but cancellation? No chance, unless they do so under goodwill or after (say) six months when it is clear service will not be returning

As it stands, you have much to lose, so I urge you not to play fast and loose - if you cease paying, the Blight will remain for 6 years, and you agreed to that too!

Buzby

iritchie wrote: »

b You may end this agreement by writing to us if:
• we don’t do something fundamental that we should have done under this agreement (for example, if there is a complete failure of the network for seven days in a row due to something we have done), within seven days of you asking us in writing.

As previously noted, there has been no 'complete failure' and further, their ability to fix the localised fault has been due to the landowner - so is nothing 'we have done'.

Selectively picking out sections that might be of use just continue the misunderstanding. The T&C's are explicit, and there is no adverse cancellation possible.

trevorjdaniel

Buzby wrote: »

As previously noted, there has been no 'complete failure' and further, their ability to fix the localised fault has been due to the landowner - so is nothing 'we have done'.

Selectively picking out sections that might be of use just continue the misunderstanding. The T&C's are explicit, and there is no adverse cancellation possible.

the "selectively picked sections" you refer to are the sections i am paying for.

their T&Cs might very well be explicit but i think you should read the statutory rights outlined by grumbler and NFH in postings #2 and #3 of this converstion.

I would also like to bring to your attention the comment from vodafone in the newspaper article.

I quote:

"Mrs Frapwell said there were a number of other base stations within the locality providing coverage to the surrounding area, but users who had been left without service for an extended period may be entitled to terminate their contracts early"

then post your comments.

trevorjdaniel

i have also rewritten my customers T&Cs where if they can prove the moon is actually made of cheese they get a month free.(as an example) lol

Herongull

Buzby wrote: »

As previously noted, there has been no 'complete failure' and further, their ability to fix the localised fault has been due to the landowner - so is nothing 'we have done'.

Selectively picking out sections that might be of use just continue the misunderstanding. The T&C's are explicit, and there is no adverse cancellation possible.

Now who is being selecting in their quoting:D

The full quote was:

"You may end this agreement by writing to us if:
• we don’t do something fundamental that we should have done under this agreement (for example, if there is a complete failure of the network for seven days in a row due to something we have done), within seven days of you asking us in writing"

Complete failure of the network for seven days was just an example of them not doing something fundamental - it wasn't the only circumstance in which people can end the agreement using this clause.

Another example that I think could reasonably come under this clause is: Lack of signal in your home for a month (where there was one when you signed up for the contract)

So you are the one with the misunderstanding

Or are your comments are tongue in cheek? Perhaps you are being ironic when you say that a mobile company can stop supplying a fundamental service indefinitely and still expect you to keep paying :rotfl:

Even vodafone don't think that!

The vodafone official spokesperson said "users who had been left without service for an extended period may be entitled to terminate their contracts early."

It seems that they do understand their obligations to customers.

So it looks to me as the OP just needs to make CS aware of the official vodafone line and also to provide appropriate evidence (or whatever) that he is one of the genuine cases of people left without a service, and the problem will hopefully be resolved.

trevorjdaniel

Herongull wrote: »

So it looks to me as the OP just needs to make CS aware of the official vodafone line and also to provide appropriate evidence (or whatever) that he is one of the genuine cases of people left without a service, and the problem will hopefully be resolved.

I emailed Lee from the Web Relations Team yesterday querying why his email denied that I was able to cancel my contract and the Mrs Frapwell position stated in the newspaper that customers could...

still awaiting a reply...

Herongull

Give him a little while.....

Lots of other people may be emailing him as a response to the newspaper article, all making similar points.

It can take time for public statements to get translated into specific instructions to the customer service people.