Would you give money to a child at the door?

Blackpool_Saver

I would have accompanied him home to his parents

CKhalvashi

miss_independent wrote: »

I'm not a social worker. I currently work with vulnerable families helping them to keep their kids actually, and often have to intervene with over zealous social services.

I didn't want to be rude when I said that, however from my experience of dealing with Social Services, this seems to be the case. I'm not a social worker either, although I did work as Head of Child Protection for some time within a school, and know how easily things get over-inflated.

Without knowing the area you're from, I wasn't to know that there were travellers moving into the area. From what I can understand, they are allowed to congregate for 28 days (from a planning perspective, which is one of my areas) before they can be told to move on, as long as they're not causing danger to others.

Without knowing the entire circumstances, I'm unable to say for definite what will happen, however surely from human perspective, it's inhumane to leave travellers homeless, without guiding them in the right direction.

CK

thorsoak

Off on a slight tangent here - I've been at the "begging at" end in Kensington High Street - in some of the coffee shops. The children sneak in - their "minders" hiding outside another shop - the coffee shop staff do their best to shoo the kids back outside, but some do manage to sneak inside. This makes me soo angry! The children - around 4-7 years old are rejected by everybody - most people pretend they don't see them, although I've observed that some people of middle-eastern/asian appearance will give them something - probably because of their religious background - I'm not sure - but most europeans/english/americans ignore them. I get angry to think that young children are learning at such an early age that rejection is normal - so I always carry some sweets - so I give them those - and if (as I often do) see a policeman wandering around outside - I take the child by the hand outside and hand him or her over to the police and point out the minder to the policeman so that hopefully, one child might just get out of the hands of these horrible people.

ab.da54

miss_independent wrote: »

I see that this thread has been resurrected!

It's now one week since the little boy came to the door. I've since found out, through a story in the local newspaper, that a number of travellers illegally moved onto a large space ("The Green") on the nearest council estate last week and police are moving them on soon. There has also been a recent spate of "doorstep" burglaries involving "young adults" supposedly seeking work according to the same newspaper and people are being warned to be remain vigilant. I personally didn't think that these children were Travellers at the time as I have worked with both the local Irish Traveller and Romany communities so I tend to know a lot of the families pretty well (contrary to what people think, alot of Travellers tend not to Travel very far or for very long periods, they are pretty settled on "legal" sites in this area). Given the recent events, it is quite possible the children were Travellers.

To answer a couple of questions;

I thought the children were crossing the carriageway to "work another neighbourhood" and not to go home because a) The first house I saw them knock on once they were safely across the carriageway (i.e the corner house) belongs to a good friend of mine who works in Child Protection so I was quite eager to see what happened there. Nothing as she wasn't in. The next "house" I saw them knock on is a residential care home, then further along the road (where they "disappeared" from my sight) is all student nurse/ medical student housing until you get to the hospital. So again, I didn't think these children were local.

When I said "I could just see the headlines..." I was referring to the fact that if something "had" have happened to these children as a result of their parents knowingly allowing them to knock on strangers doors in a area they weren't all that familiar with, I couldn't see the general public having much sympathy for the parents. I do think allowing your children (especially a 7 year old who walked down a long path to my front door alone whilst his 12-14 year old sister hid behind a hedge outside of the garden) to go door to door in a strange area where they are unknown asking for odd jobs is bad parenting, sorry. I know the chances of anything happening are slim but bad things do happen to children and if you love your kids, you wouldn't take the risk imho.

I'm not a social worker. I currently work with vulnerable families helping them to keep their kids actually, and often have to intervene with over zealous social services. I almost always on the parent's side unless there are serious concerns. I still feel that I have good instincts and I'm pretty good at spotting when something is off. I still stand by what I believe was the case, that this child was being exploited and shouldn't have been knocking on stranger's doors asking for work/begging. I don't see evil everywhere I look, and I don't go looking for things that aren't there. I have had lots of children knock on the door over the years, chancing their lucking singing Christmas carols in November or Penny for the Guy in September and never had any concerns. I felt something was very "off" with this particular situtation. But I am the one who witnessed this situation so maybe its difficult for people to appreciate that.

I probably won't be posting on this thread anymore, just purely as it was an isolated incident and I doubt it will happen again. Thanks to everyone who offered their opinion.

Couple of things, if you don't mind.

Can I ask how knocking on a couple of doors over the road, albeit a carriageway, means that these children were moving on to work another neighbourhood?

What evidence is there that the parents were aware of this situation?

Yet you shut the door and did nothing?? Despite having concerns for this young child??

miss_independent

ab.da54 wrote: »

Couple of things, if you don't mind.

Can I ask how knocking on a couple of doors over the road, albeit a carriageway, means that these children were moving on to work another neighbourhood?


It doesn't "mean" they were, I "guessed" they were due to the fact that a small child had knocked on my door asking if he could wash my car in exchange for money and then asked for a donation. His sister was hiding but when I looked out of the window she had a bucket and sponge which was at least a hint that they were intending to wash cars. I supposed that when they knocked on the doors across the carriageway they were asking the same thing (I.e Can we wash your car? Can we have a donation". I could be entirely wrong though, maybe they were knocking on my friend's door and the door of a residential care home and the student nurses homes etc etc to see if they had found their ball, or their lost cat. Maybe they were genuinely curious to see who lived in these places. But somehow, I think it's far more likely that they decided to see if they could get more work in the next nearest neighbourhood to here i.e across the dual carriageway. I don't know what they did after they were out of eyeshot so I don't know how many doors they knocked on.

What evidence is there that the parents were aware of this situation?

I didn't suggest the parents were aware. The comment I made about thinking it was poor form for parents to knowingly allow their child to knock on strangers doors asking for work/money was in reply to other posters suggesting that in their opinion it was ok for children to earn a bit of pocket money and that what these kids were doing was harmless. I pointed out that whilst I agree it's important for children to learn the importance of earning money, I felt this could be done in the home (I.e paid to wash their parent's car) or with people to whom the child was known (i.e offer to mow a neighbours lawn or help a relative with an odd job). I feel it could be unsafe for children to be knocking on complete strangers doors asking for work/money and it's not something I would allow as a parent. I don't have much respect for any parent who would permit that.

Yet you shut the door and did nothing?? Despite having concerns for this young child??

As I said in one of my first posts, the little boy kept looking over his shoulder nervously. This in turn made me uneasy as it made me feel that someone was hiding (and they were) and I did wonder was I about to be robbed by someone else when I went to get my purse. So I quickly managed to get the little boy to leave and I ran upstairs to see if he WAS alone because if he was alone I would have ran outside and tried to talk to him and find a way of getting him home safely. By the time I got to the window, he was crossing the dual carriageway with the older girl.

Maybe I should have called the police? Maybe... Part of me wishes I had but retrospect is a great thing. This was a very unusual situation for me and I didn't quite know how to react. I tried to tell myself that they were just kids being crafty trying to get a bit of money but later on what had happened just kept niggling away at me. And not to make excuses but at the time my family were over because one of our close relatives is dying and we were in the middle of making final arrangements for care, hospice involvement, discussing how much medical intervention was appropriate etc. So I didn't really get a chance to think in depth about what had happened until later on in the evening. If I wasn't in the middle of all that maybe I would have acted more swiftly.

ab.da54

miss_independent wrote: »

As I said in one of my first posts, the little boy kept looking over his shoulder nervously. This in turn made me uneasy as it made me feel that someone was hiding (and they were) and I did wonder was I about to be robbed by someone else when I went to get my purse. So I quickly managed to get the little boy to leave and I ran upstairs to see if he WAS alone because if he was alone I would have ran outside and tried to talk to him and find a way of getting him home safely. By the time I got to the window, he was crossing the dual carriageway with the older girl.

Maybe I should have called the police? Maybe... Part of me wishes I had but retrospect is a great thing. This was a very unusual situation for me and I didn't quite know how to react. I tried to tell myself that they were just kids being crafty trying to get a bit of money but later on what had happened just kept niggling away at me. And not to make excuses but at the time my family were over because one of our close relatives is dying and we were in the middle of making final arrangements for care, hospice involvement, discussing how much medical intervention was appropriate etc. So I didn't really get a chance to think in depth about what had happened until later on in the evening. If I wasn't in the middle of all that maybe I would have acted more swiftly.

I am sorry to hear of all you are going through with your relative. I hope their passing is not a troubled one.

I do find it odd though that you were concerned enough to quickly run upstairs to the front bedroom window, watch the children whilst they knocked on several doors, then return downstairs to continue your conversations with your relatives, giving not another thought to the children until much later.

miss_independent

ab.da54 wrote: »

I am sorry to hear of all you are going through with your relative. I hope their passing is not a troubled one.

I do find it odd though that you were concerned enough to quickly run upstairs to the front bedroom window, watch the children whilst they knocked on several doors, then return downstairs to continue your conversations with your relatives, giving not another thought to the children until much later.

As I said in a previous post, I then discussed what had just happened with my family and there were mixed responses as to wether I should have given the child money. The reason I posted (the next day) was because of the immediate conversation we, as a family had
as I want to ascertain wether the general consensus was that I should have given the child money or not (hence the title of the thread). Then the conversation immediately turned back to our loved one who, as we spoke, lay dying and so far, her passing is a long and troubled one, she,and all of us who are having to watch, are going through torment. So forgive me if their were more pressing things at hand. Some of our relatives were flying back early the next day so these discussions re final care and final wishes had to happen and there was a time scale for. Maybe you find it odd but when you are watching someone you love die (and at this point helping to nurse them day and night) other things take precedence I'm afraid and no one can really say what you would do in that situation until you are in it. Tbh I think it's pretty amazing, given my state of mind that day, that I even remembered the children at all at any point in the day but I did.

I also pointed out that I ran upstairs (the front bedroom window was your concoction) to see if the child was alone because if he was alone I would have tried to find out how I could ensure he got home safely. The child was not alone, he was with a 12 to 14 year old girl. In my mind this changed things somewhat, i.e for the immediate time being he was safe.


As I said previously, I won't be posting again now I'm afraid. I've got too much going on in the "real" world and have to grab sleep as and when I can without spending time on the Internet answering questions about an incident which happened over a week ago and I can't magically travel in a time machine back to then and change my reaction.