Civil Enforcement Ltd & Co-op car park, Whitby

scousedicko

Just trying to simplify my Posts.

Story so far, I got a £90 bill for overstaying by 15 minutes in Co-op's car park in Whitby & refused to pay. I have medical reasons/excuses if I need them in Court and pointed these out to CEL who said "tough, pay up" but gave me the extra 14 days to qualify for 50% discount around the time Co-op promised to cancel the charge.
Next, I got a Final Demand (breach of BPA's Code of Practice) in red showing through the window in a brown envelope (the original "PCN" came in a white one) clearly demonstrating it as an unpaid bill.
Next, I actually studied the BPA's Code and added up the number of contraventions, got them down in an email backed up with pictures of signs, location of them paying attention to the readability of them and suitability of them as warning of image-recording required under the Data Protection Act.
Next I converted them to PDF's and added notes to all the letters and images in great detail.
Now I've sent it to British Parking Association for them to rubbish, DVLA so I can compare the reactions, Information Commissioner to complain about the signage/lack of DPA compliance and to my local Police Officer who I hope will spread panic in CEL to at least the same extent as CEL give to people who really should not be pressured in this way.

I'll post any further developments on this thread as they happen.

Dicko.

bazster

Good man, looking forward to reading updates.

The_Slithy_Tove

Excellent! One more avenue of approach is to check to see if they had planning permission to install the ANPR cameras. Experience here has revealed an awful lot of overlooked planning applications.

The Co-op is supposed to be the "ethical" supermarket, yet their stores increasingly use the most unethical of industries.

scousedicko

The Slithy Tove. Just sent off my email to check with the council. Here's hoping.

Dicko

The_Slithy_Tove

scousedicko wrote: »

The Slithy Tove. Just sent off my email to check with the council. Here's hoping.

Many (most?) councils' planning departments have all recent applications available online. Do a search on their site for the postcode of the offending Co-Op and see if there are any applications for cameras (or the poles they are mounted on) over the last few years.

scousedicko

The_Slithy_Tove wrote: »

Many (most?) councils' planning departments have all recent applications available online. Do a search on their site for the postcode of the offending Co-Op and see if there are any applications for cameras (or the poles they are mounted on) over the last few years.

Already done that, there is a large application listed but can't get details up. It refers to a store extension, car park re-configuring etc but it's dated 2009; the redevelopment is apparently due to start soon but I couldn't be sure, from the info, if CEL's new cameras are included.
Hopefully there will be a visit in the next week or so, so then we'll know.

Smoggy71

I've been stiffed by these cowboys as well. Unfortunately my company pays these fines up front and requests the money from us afterwards, making it impossible to take the approach you are taking! I don't live near Whitby, so I haven't been able to go back and review the signage, but I'd love to get a copy of the shots you took. I complained to the Co-op directly and they seemed to be interested at first. Then they requested that I produce a receipt for the day in question. I went away and found it (yay!) sent a copy to them, then was told they were not going to do anything about it anyway. I'm guessing the receipt thing was just a ruse to try and get rid of me if I had no proof of using the store.

I have a couple of links that I can't post on the forum, because I'm too new, :mad: that refer to the legality of these kinds of operations - I'm sure that you have read the other forum posts on this though!

Everyone I mention this too always says the same thing - how hypocritical the Co-op are to call themselves an ethical company, when they indulge in this kind of scam. I think there should be a campaign to shame the businesses that subcontract to these cowboys, rather than target these leeches directly. The real damage that can be done is to the reputations of businesses like the Co-op.

Half_way

Smoggy71 wrote: »

I've been stiffed by these cowboys as well. Unfortunately my company pays these fines up front and requests the money from us afterwards, making it impossible to take the approach you are taking! I don't live near Whitby, so I haven't been able to go back and review the signage, but I'd love to get a copy of the shots you took. I complained to the Co-op directly and they seemed to be interested at first. Then they requested that I produce a receipt for the day in question. I went away and found it (yay!) sent a copy to them, then was told they were not going to do anything about it anyway. I'm guessing the receipt thing was just a ruse to try and get rid of me if I had no proof of using the store.

I have a couple of links that I can't post on the forum, because I'm too new, :mad: that refer to the legality of these kinds of operations - I'm sure that you have read the other forum posts on this though!

Everyone I mention this too always says the same thing - how hypocritical the Co-op are to call themselves an ethical company, when they indulge in this kind of scam. I think there should be a campaign to shame the businesses that subcontract to these cowboys, rather than target these leeches directly. The real damage that can be done is to the reputations of businesses like the Co-op.

Looks like you have been a possible Victim of an unlawful deduction from your wages

Coupon-mad

Half_way wrote: »

Looks like you have been a possible Victim of an unlawful deduction from your wages

Seconded.

Smoggy71, check your car use t&cs - they are VERY UNLIKELY to include deductions for anything other than a real penalty from an authority. This is nothing of the sort and was never their liability whatsoever.

If a Lease or Company Fleet Manager just pays out on receipt of any old headed notepaper letter quoting one of their vehicles then they need their head examining. OK so they can pocket an admin fee but they are setting their drivers up for a fall because PPC World will deliberately target hire cars and company vans (in fact we think they already do). They will know that these are the easiest touch for an unquestioning payment from idiots!

See here, a little light reading for your company:

http://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/2009/5/28/question-private-parking-fines-fleets-urged/30698/

It was only ever your scam to ignore, it was only a personal allegation of breach of contract against you as the driver (nothing to do with the car/owner/keeper). That is how things stand for fake PCNs issued up until the end of September so I would consider politely but firmly raising a 'grievance' to your Line Manager and HR Dept about that unlawful deduction if the t&cs only talk about penalties, fines & offences. They have paid a pretend fine just because it may have looked a bit official, and that is NOT ON. It is easy to tell the difference = big clue that it didn't come from a Council or the Police and didn't include the word 'Penalty' (as they are not allowed to use that word).

I would also tell them that the law is changing and ask what they are going to do about it to stop their drivers being targetted by these scammers. Tell them about the Protection of Freedoms Act and the simple step for Fleet Managers to take - with any 'Parking Charge' not originating from an authority - to simply name the driver each time, who can then ignore, appeal (or pay - NOOOOOO!) the fake PCN. There is then NO COMEBACK on the Fleet company at all. NOTHING under any circumstances.

To completely and very easily absolve their possible liability after the Freedoms Act comes in 10days' time on 1st October, all they need do is reply to any ticket and say that on that date the vehicle was in use by 'Smoggy71' who can be contacted at this address (your house or your company).'

That's all they will need to do and they will then continue to have ZERO liability. See here, email the Fleet Manager this new BVRLA link.

''The BVRLA will now be working with the British Parking Association to ensure that customers' details can be passed to private parking firms in a simple way, without the need for complex evidential requirements such as copies of rental and lease agreements.''

Contact:

Amanda Brandon, legal and policy executive

Telephone: 01494 545701

Email: [EMAIL="amanda@bvrla.co.uk"]amanda@bvrla.co.uk[/EMAIL]

If your company uses a lease company for their fleet, the lease co. should be able to ask her for help if they are members.

Smoggy71

Thanks for your response Coupon Mad. I need to dig a little into the t&cs. My company is a car manufacturer, so the arrangements on company cars may be a bit different to most, but even so, they need to review how this situation is approached!

Coupon-mad

They need to review it PDQ in view of the Protection of Freedoms Act, so now's the time to get in and point out how easy it will be. Maybe they are aware of, or are members of the BVRLA anyway.