Wing Mirror Dilemma - Who should pay...

Bongles

shaun_from_Africa wrote: »

"Awfully stiff" compared to what?

Those were societys childs words. Presumably, 'awfully stiff' compared to their expectation.

shaun_from_Africa wrote: »

If the person in question wasn't a driver and had never been asked to move a mirror before, how would they be expected to know how stiff it should have been?

Common sense perhaps? If you're not sure what you're doing, why wouldn't you be erring on the side of caution?

Bongles

Wongsky wrote: »

So, if I ask a friend to get my car and pick me up, and whilst doing so, they drive the car perfectly reasonably, but the car breaks down - cambelt snapped, or some other significant mechanic issue.

I should bill them, or expect them to make a contribution? After all, what's the salient difference between this, and the door mirror scenario?

The salient difference is this:

Wongsky wrote: »

they drive the car perfectly reasonably

Sengcheek wrote: »

she said she had difficulty turning it in, so got behind it and pushed it again.

Wongsky

Bongles wrote: »

The salient difference is this:

So.

Sometimes door mirrors are a bit stiff. Where was the OP when this was happening? Out back, mowing the lawn? They could have:-

a) either done it themself, or
b) say something to their "friend" if it looked like they were doing something "unreasonable".

As to the car scenario... so say I'd asked this "friend" of mine, to come pick me up in my car, and they'd been a bit absent minded, had the stereo up, hadn't really noticed a warning light, straightaway, and their could have been an oil or temperature problem, exacerbated by them not dealing with it immediately - bearing in mind, what they tell me, might be a little euphemistic, anyways - what then?

They have responsiblity? I should bill them? I should expect them to contribute? Is there a point at which (due to cost) you'd say they should / you could expect them to, and a point below which you wouldn't?

Bongles

photome wrote: »

if the driver asks passanger to move it, the passanger says it wont move its to stiff, the driver says keep pushing...whos fault is it if it breaks

Did you get the impression from the OP that that's how the conversation went? I don't see that in what the OP said. If the OP had told their friend to keep pushing, I'm not sure what they'd even be doing here asking the question in the first place.

Bongles

Wongsky wrote: »

As to the car scenario... so say I'd asked this "friend" of mine, to come pick me up in my car, and they'd been a bit absent minded, had the stereo up, hadn't really noticed a warning light, straightaway, and their could have been an oil or temperature problem, exacerbated by them not dealing with it immediately - bearing in mind, what they tell me, might be a little euphemistic, anyways - what then?

They have responsiblity? I should bill them? I should expect them to contribute? Is there a point at which (due to cost) you'd say they should / you could expect them to, and a point below which you wouldn't?

How you work it out is between you and your friend. There's no reason why you and your friend have to come to the same agreement that me and my friend would in the same scenario.

My only question is that, on realising (or having it pointed out to them) what they'd done, wouldn't you expect your friend to immediately apologise and feel responsible for the consequences of their absent mindedness?

Wongsky

Bongles wrote: »

How you work it out is between you and your friend. There's no reason why you and your friend have to come to the same agreement that me and my friend would in the same scenario.

My only question is that, on realising (or having it pointed out to them) what they'd done, wouldn't you expect your friend to immediately apologise and feel responsible for the consequences of their absent mindedness?

I'd expect they may, possibly should, say sorry.

As to taking on any financial responsibility, I doubt I'd expect that - after all, something occurred for that fault to exhibit. I'm responsible for the maintenance of the car. I wouldn't expect if I'm asking somebody to get my car and pick me up, for them to do a under-the-bonnet once over. I would expect them to not drive off, if something was immediately and apparently wrong.

I would expect them to drive reasonably - by that I mean by not being mechanically abusive. If they didn't notice some warning immediately, I wouldn't be overly judgemental. And I wouldn't expect any recompense unless it was clearly, and solely their fault.

That's why with the mirror thing, it's relatively low value, could already have been damaged / compromised - I know from experience, the door mirror I damaged on one of my own cars, was probably a result of 2 factors:-

a) being regularly folded closed, and wear and tear that entails
b) folding it closed in one instance, where I was in a bit of a hurry, and less careful / sympathetic when I did it.

Bongles

Wongsky wrote: »

I would expect them to drive reasonably - by that I mean by not being mechanically abusive.

Me too. In the OP's case, can you think of a better definition of mechanically abusive than:

Sengcheek wrote: »

she said she had difficulty turning it in, so got behind it and pushed it again.

Wongsky

Bongles wrote: »

Me too. In the OP's case, can you think of a better definition of mechanically abusive than:

No I don't think that's necessarily mechanically abusive.

I can think of plenty of females, who'd do a similar thing, if told to fold a door mirror in, and it wouldn't budge by them pushing it with just arm power - in fact, I've seen several women do just that very thing - and I didn't think, well that's just mechanically abusive, if it's not their car, they're gonna have a bill to pay.

And if the OP saw them doing this, and thought it was way over-the-top, why the hell didn't they stop them?

Bongles

Wongsky wrote: »

No I don't think that's necessarily mechanically abusive.

Something doesn't move when you apply the amount of force you think ought to be required. What do you do next?

Wongsky

Bongles wrote: »

Something doesn't move when you apply the amount of force you think ought to be required. What do you do next?

Apply more force - but how much mechanical sympathy are we requiring / expecting?

If the OP couldn't be sure, they could have damned well done it themselves.

If it was a wheelnut that I couldn't move - I'd apply more force. If it was a wing mirror, I'd apply more force - however, I wouldn't expect everybody else to understand how much force they could get away with, with a wing mirror.