(Text removed by MSE Forum Team) The Tories/Liberliars

angrypirate

Gracchus_Babeuf wrote: »

The reason we have constituencies is for MPs to represent a given region, not to have an exact population match evenly distributed. Therefore, what the conservatives are wanting to do is highly unethical and I hope will be voted down by the Lib-Dems. Our democratic system is based on the concept of a constituency as an area with a distinct local identity - if you water this down by enforcing an artifical population distribution then you might as well get rid of the entire system. Personally I prefer a system closer to PR as that would represent voters more fairly - the Tories just want to twist the system to suit themselves.

They will still be representing a given region, just the boundaries are going to be redrawn so that they each represent a similar number of electorate.

I dont see whats so unethical about that. Surely MPs each representing a similar number of electorate is not only fair, but also ensures that no MP is overloaded or unloaded in how many they represent.

StevieJ

robpw2 wrote: »

i for one can't wait for 2015 when labour form a coalition with the lib dems to take power...

The LibDems? that won't do any good they won't have any MPs, anyway I doubt they will require a coalition.

FTBFun

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Whoever you vote for the government always gets in. Labour, Tory, Lib Dem, they are all the same faceless neo-liberal puppets. The system is now too broken to support a middle class so even the lower middle classes get it, not just the workers.

This country needs change, radical change.

Marxism worked out really well in Eastern Europe, didn't it? Even the Chinese have given up pretty much.

robpw2

StevieJ wrote: »

The LibDems? that won't do any good they won't have any MPs, anyway I doubt they will require a coalition.

with ed in charge you will need a coalition

FTBFun

StevieJ wrote: »

The LibDems? that won't do any good they won't have any MPs, anyway I doubt they will require a coalition.

Labour won't get in until they get the right brother in as leader, and Alastair Darling as Shadow Chancellor.

Gracchus_Babeuf

FTBFun wrote: »

Marxism worked out really well in Eastern Europe, didn't it? Even the Chinese have given up pretty much.

Not true. The 'commanding heights' of industry in China are state owned, not private. Yes, they have liberalised the economy but the state is still in full control. Maybe China is moving closer to fascism than communism, but it's no liberal democracy.

Gracchus_Babeuf

angrypirate wrote: »

They will still be representing a given region, just the boundaries are going to be redrawn so that they each represent a similar number of electorate.

I dont see whats so unethical about that. Surely MPs each representing a similar number of electorate is not only fair, but also ensures that no MP is overloaded or unloaded in how many they represent.

You'ver missed the point. A constituency exists to represent a distinct area with a broadly similar social identity - redrawing boundaries arbitrarily will mix towns with countryside and defeat the entire point of having constituencies in the first place. This is just the Tories changing the rules when they lose the game.

Generali

Gracchus_Babeuf wrote: »

The Labour Party used to be quite socially conservative in the days of Attlee and to a lesser degree, Wilson. The party reflected the values of ordinary working class people, who were (and to a large extent still are) socially conservative. Then it became too influenced by the loony left and lost its way under Foot and - to a lesser extent - Kinnock. Smith would have been a better leader but he died prematurely and then we got Blair, the arch-libertarian with Tory sympathies.

As for a return to Heathite christian democracy, I'm not optimistic. The problem is Britain has become 'McBritain' - a virtual 51st state of the USA, not a proper European country. The Tories are much more like the American Republicans than a mainstream centre-right European party. The incresasingly strident euroscepticism within the Conservative Party is a symptom of this trend.

Thanks. I don't agree with very much of what you say but I can see your point. Certainly a return to Christian Democracy seems as likely right now as a return to The Whig Supremacy.

I find it saddening that the Tories seem to take so many of their social cues from the Republicans: the hatred of people for their sexuality and colour repels me. I can't look to Labour as they seem unable to cope with anyone holding alternate views.

In Australia I can see the same mistakes being made all over again: Labor setting up a client state: taking money from the few and redistributing it to the majority regardless of whether they want or need to be given it and Liberal/Nat Coalition looking to baser instincts of voters to hold a majority.

FTBFun

Gracchus_Babeuf wrote: »

Not true. The 'commanding heights' of industry in China are state owned, not private.

Are you sure about that? I was positive that most of the state-run industry was inefficiently run by the Army to keep them on-side.

Yes, they have liberalised the economy but the state is still in full control. Maybe China is moving closer to fascism than communism, but it's no liberal democracy.

It's certainly not a democracy - but not a Marxist state either due to its recognition of private industry.

Gracchus_Babeuf

FTBFun wrote: »

Labour won't get in until they get the right brother in as leader, and Alastair Darling as Shadow Chancellor.

Not true. People vote for a party, not a leader. And Darling was a useless idiot - why get him back? Might as well keep the current government. Hardly surprising that Tories like you want the old Blairites back in charge of Labour, so you win whichever party wins the election! :rotfl: