State workers still enjoy advantage over private employees

Jamie_Carter

chewmylegoff wrote: »

for someone who likes to just dismiss other people's posts by highlighting bits of it and saying that they are wrong on the basis of either no evidence at all, or occassionaly on the basis of one of your mates who is a fireman, this is an interesting statement.


i would say it's nearer 10% who are genuinely "hard working" but then what does that really even mean these days. everyone with a job and at least one relative is a "hard working family" according to the govt. "hard working" just appears to mean "working" really. as long as you don't spend 5 hours a day on facebook, or MSE for that matter, you meet the "hard working" criteria.

i doubt that the number of people who are "hard working" in the private sector is significantly different to the 10% above, mind you. i reckon in both areas about 10% of people are working hard, about 30-40% of people are working normally, and the rest are messing about most of the time.

To start with, I used my mate who is a fireman as an example. The fact is that you know nothing about me, or what I do. So you don't know where my knowledge comes from.

I don't regard someone as being hard working, unless they put 100% into the job they do. In my experience you may be right about the percentage of hard workers being very similar in both private and public sectors. But in the environment where I work, and have experience in, I would put it at far higher than 10%. But then if they weren't hard workers, then they wouldn't last long.

vivatifosi

Hmm71 wrote: »

Could you provide some figures of how many public sector workers there were back then compared to now? Just to back up your assertion if you wouldn't mind.

I know the question wasn't asked of me, but for all public sector employment, there's data from 1999...

1999 to now, all public sector:
http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/dcp171778_268633.pdf

If you're interested in the civil service, the data goes back further.
1902 to present, civil service only:
http://www.civilservice.gov.uk/about/facts/statistics

Can't see similar for NHS or local government. Obviously there's also been outsourcing to the private sector across this shorter time period.

chewmylegoff

Jamie_Carter wrote: »

And that is often the problem. Regardless of what some people on here seem to think, the public sector don't pay anywhere near as much as the private sector for the equivalent jobs. So they will never recruit the best people to do this type of job.

I earn more in the public sector than everyone else I qualified with (as an accountant in private practice) bar one person who went into investment banking. I would probably earn £10k a year less (minimum) in the private sector doing a directly equivalent job, I know this because people keep ringing me up and offering me £10k-20k less a year to move to equivalent jobs in the private sector. Oh well, another sweeping generalisation debunked.

chewmylegoff

Jamie_Carter wrote: »

To start with, I used my mate who is a fireman as an example. The fact is that you know nothing about me, or what I do. So you don't know where my knowledge comes from.

I don't regard someone as being hard working, unless they put 100% into the job they do. In my experience you may be right about the percentage of hard workers being very similar in both private and public sectors. But in the environment where I work, and have experience in, I would put it at far higher than 10%. But then if they weren't hard workers, then they wouldn't last long.

Quite, your experience is just that, your experience and it doesn't make you right, it just gives you anecdotal evidence about your own life, which is no more or less valid than that the anecdotal evidence of others on this thread.

andyroberts1967

Jamie_Carter wrote: »

To start with, I used my mate who is a fireman as an example. The fact is that you know nothing about me, or what I do. So you don't know where my knowledge comes from.

I don't regard someone as being hard working, unless they put 100% into the job they do. In my experience you may be right about the percentage of hard workers being very similar in both private and public sectors. But in the environment where I work, and have experience in, I would put it at far higher than 10%. But then if they weren't hard workers, then they wouldn't last long.

I work in the public sector and I can't even connect to Facebook or any social media for that matter!

Loughton_Monkey

Hmm71 wrote: »

Yes but it still doesn't tell me how many public sector workers there were back then compared to now. That's just about Government spending not what the money was being spent on. I'm not saying you're wrong about there being far fewer public sector workers years ago, I'd just be interested in seeing the actual amount then and now, especially taking into account all the work that has been contracted out to private companies.

Why are you asking me that? When did I say "fewer public sector workers"?

I've given you the data that does prove my point in trumps. Please don't ask me to do grubby little research on your behalf. I have better things to do.

Loughton_Monkey

andyroberts1967 wrote: »

I work in the public sector and I can't even connect to Facebook or any social media for that matter!

Don't worry. I'm sure they'll send you on a 2 week course before too long. Teach you how to do it. Not too difficult.

andyroberts1967

Loughton_Monkey wrote: »

Don't worry. I'm sure they'll send you on a 2 week course before too long. Teach you how to do it. Not too difficult.

No silly, I didn't mean that I don't know how to connect to social media, I meant that our internet systems prevent us from doing so. Although apparently there is a pilot going on for Twitter in a few teams around the country, but this is purely for us to contact customers in a professional capacity.

chewmylegoff

andyroberts1967 wrote: »

No silly, I didn't mean that I don't know how to connect to social media, I meant that our internet systems prevent us from doing so. Although apparently there is a pilot going on for Twitter in a few teams around the country, but this is purely for us to contact customers in a professional capacity.

He knows that...

But why is this relevant. You dont need to be on the Internet to mck about and not do work.

BobQ

FTBFun wrote: »

These aren't all the jobs in the public sector though are they?

I always find it odd that the "good" parts at the sharp endof the public sector are always focused on yet the rest - in local government, the civil service etc - are ignored.

There are more civil servants at the MOD than infantry soldiers in the British Army.

So by implication local government and the civil service is "bad"? Some of these people do very difficult jobs and do not deserve to be the butt of such dismissive remarks. For example social workers dealing with child abuse, scientists supporting the Army in front line operations, forensic scientists supporting the police.............