State workers still enjoy advantage over private employees

paulmapp8306

Jamie_Carter wrote: »

With the current security threats, I'd say yes we probably do.

Do you actually know what these civil servants do?

Even with the current security threats - no we dont.

Yes I do know what the civil servants do - most do not a lot.

How do I know - because Im still serving after 23 years, and work with many of the said Civil Serveants - and have done so in serveral locations throughout my career.

In my current place of work, the military "pay clerks" were replaced a while ago with "civil serveants2. they replaced 2 military with 4 civilians - while at the same time reducing the ammount of soldiers they were administrating by 1/10th. When you actually want something, your lucky to find one of them as their on meetings/leave/sick/off with depression/lunch/or its not the allocated opening times (used to be 8-4 the same as the soldiers work - now its 9-11 and 1-3 except wednesdays and fridays when its closed).

this example is not abnormal at the front line units. civil Servants in the MOD withint he stores chain - the less said the better. Ditto the catering departments. MOD London, where most of the real work is done is the exception - though its still way overstaffed.

paulmapp8306

FTBFun wrote: »

I'm looking at this factually - if the job was that dangerous for such "low pay", there wouldn't be 200 applicants for every position, would there?

We would have a different argument if we were talking armed forces personnel (an infantry private starts off on nearly half the wage of a entry-level fireman, for example, in an obviously more dangerous and less comfortable job).

Yes there would. people need jobs. there was recently a documented case local to me where there were 10 minimum wage jobs going in a new shop. They had 800 applicants in the first 3 hours. Are you telling me the reason there were so many applicants was because of the pay ??

Its also not true to say an entry level soldier getts half an entry level firefighter. there actually quite close, though the firefighter is ahead. There is much mroe room or promotion in themilitary, and with the banded pay scales, they get pay rises every year (up to 7 for miost ranks) even if they dont rise in rank. It doesnt take long to be much better paid than said fire-fighter.

paulmapp8306

Andy_L wrote: »

I'd rather have both






Serving millitary personel are heavily involved in the procurement process & disproportinatly so at the decision making level.

This is true. and one area where it should all be civil serveants. Officers get put in post for 3 years with NO knowledge of how to negotiate a contract, or how to word one. they make desicions and are gone before the process is complete - invariably leading to over paying for the equipment and agreeing to very costly support/modification agreements.

we should have a dedicated procurement agency, staffed by permanant civilians, with expertise in contract negotiation.

paulmapp8306

A._Badger wrote: »

A surprising number of people who wear big boots and carry guns for a living (no, not Millwall supporters!). You might try asking some, if you can tear yourself away from the Guardian.

100% true here My Badger. I see it every day.

We have laptops at work in my department (4 of them). There secure, and cost £360 per month each. We dont need them. We want normal desktops that cost £30 per month.

WE asked fopr a change, and the CIVIL SERVEANT in charge of the budget said no - it costs £700 to change. Apparently they can change up to 10 computers for that ammount, so would wait until another 6 needed doing. That was 6 months ago.

So - to date its cost an extra £7920 to keep the laptops compared to what we would have spent if they had been swopped when we asked.

WE challanged this, giving the figures only to be told "the contract isnt paid from my budget - the equipment swop is, so its cheaper FOR ME to wait.

This about sums up the civil servants view of "my area of responsibility" instead of "the big picture".

Makes my sick constantly when there are redundancies, pay freezes, low paid kids being shot at etc, yet this Civil Servant is rewarded with a bonus because HIS budget came in under his allocation this year GRRRRRRRRRR.

Jamie_Carter

PaulF81 wrote: »

a lot of myths in the above. soldiers pay for food and accom and their pay is atually docked significantly in the earlier years to account or cheap accom for example.

Not when they are deployed. They receive extra pay, and have very little to spend it on.

Anyway this is going off topic, as it is about conditions between private and public sector. And not between two different public sectors.

http://www.armedforces.co.uk/armypayscales.htm

http://www.hantsfire.gov.uk/salary

Jamie_Carter

antonic wrote: »

I`m loving being a Civil Servant because currently :

1) I am working a compressed working week (doing my 37 hours in 4 days not 5) and therefore having every Monday off and so have permanent long weekends
2) I get 30 days Paid Leave a year
3) I get 10 1/2 days Bank Holidays & privilege days a year
4) I could have a maximum 36 days flexi a year (3 days a month)
5) When I retire I will get an index linked pension based on a maximum of 26 years contributions out of 40 years service
6) I will also get a lump sum based on the same 26 years
7) My salary of just £20,000 pa, is quite good for where I live & work and finally
8) I enjoy my job, I enjoy trying to help people to the best of my ability, even though my job does involve getting people to pay what they owe !.

So all in all I`m happy bunny who has no intention of leaving the Public Sector.

Only £20,000 pa...what do you do?

paulmapp8306

Jamie_Carter wrote: »

Not when they are deployed. They receive extra pay, and have very little to spend it on.]

Most of them have families that still need food/clothes etc, and in this case their accommodation etc still has to be paid for - and no its not free, or that cheap any more (and we actually pay MORe in council tax than some civilians, despite using less amenities. My new house is £1080/year. My old Military house was smaller, and was £1365/year)

SINGLE soldiers is fair enough, they dont have much to spend there money on - mostly due to living in a dusty hole being shot at.

grizzly1911

paulmapp8306 wrote: »

100% true here My Badger. I see it every day.

We have laptops at work in my department (4 of them). There secure, and cost £360 per month each. We dont need them. We want normal desktops that cost £30 per month.

WE asked fopr a change, and the CIVIL SERVEANT in charge of the budget said no - it costs £700 to change. Apparently they can change up to 10 computers for that ammount, so would wait until another 6 needed doing. That was 6 months ago.

So - to date its cost an extra £7920 to keep the laptops compared to what we would have spent if they had been swopped when we asked.

WE challanged this, giving the figures only to be told "the contract isnt paid from my budget - the equipment swop is, so its cheaper FOR ME to wait.

This about sums up the civil servants view of "my area of responsibility" instead of "the big picture".

Makes my sick constantly when there are redundancies, pay freezes, low paid kids being shot at etc, yet this Civil Servant is rewarded with a bonus because HIS budget came in under his allocation this year GRRRRRRRRRR.

Is the equipment charged to an external private company or to another inhouse governement supplier?

Just curious.

Jamie_Carter

paulmapp8306 wrote: »

Even with the current security threats - no we dont.

Yes I do know what the civil servants do - most do not a lot.

How do I know - because Im still serving after 23 years, and work with many of the said Civil Serveants - and have done so in serveral locations throughout my career.

In my current place of work, the military "pay clerks" were replaced a while ago with "civil serveants2. they replaced 2 military with 4 civilians - while at the same time reducing the ammount of soldiers they were administrating by 1/10th. When you actually want something, your lucky to find one of them as their on meetings/leave/sick/off with depression/lunch/or its not the allocated opening times (used to be 8-4 the same as the soldiers work - now its 9-11 and 1-3 except wednesdays and fridays when its closed).

this example is not abnormal at the front line units. civil Servants in the MOD withint he stores chain - the less said the better. Ditto the catering departments. MOD London, where most of the real work is done is the exception - though its still way overstaffed.

I wasn't actually talking about at admin level. There are lazy admin staff in all sectors. I was actually talking about those at higher levels, who do a lot of things that joe public would never know about. Because I have worked with some of these people. I expected them to be pompus, and looking down their nose at us. But in fact they were very knowledgeable, and extremely hard working. And what really surprised me was that if I made a good suggestion, they would sometimes implement it immediately.

Jamie_Carter

paulmapp8306 wrote: »

100% true here My Badger. I see it every day.

We have laptops at work in my department (4 of them). There secure, and cost £360 per month each. We dont need them. We want normal desktops that cost £30 per month.

WE asked fopr a change, and the CIVIL SERVEANT in charge of the budget said no - it costs £700 to change. Apparently they can change up to 10 computers for that ammount, so would wait until another 6 needed doing. That was 6 months ago.

So - to date its cost an extra £7920 to keep the laptops compared to what we would have spent if they had been swopped when we asked.

WE challanged this, giving the figures only to be told "the contract isnt paid from my budget - the equipment swop is, so its cheaper FOR ME to wait.

This about sums up the civil servants view of "my area of responsibility" instead of "the big picture".

Makes my sick constantly when there are redundancies, pay freezes, low paid kids being shot at etc, yet this Civil Servant is rewarded with a bonus because HIS budget came in under his allocation this year GRRRRRRRRRR.

This sort of thing happens in both public and private sectors. But the worst thing is that when it happens in the public sector it is the publics money that is wasted.

It is down to poor management and communication. And not asking the people who actually use the equipment.