State workers still enjoy advantage over private employees

Jamie_Carter

paulmapp8306 wrote: »

Jamie_Carter wrote: »

Not when they are deployed. They receive extra pay, and have very little to spend it on.]

Most of them have families that still need food/clothes etc, and in this case their accommodation etc still has to be paid for - and no its not free, or that cheap any more (and we actually pay MORe in council tax than some civilians, despite using less amenities. My new house is £1080/year. My old Military house was smaller, and was £1365/year)

SINGLE soldiers is fair enough, they dont have much to spend there money on - mostly due to living in a dusty hole being shot at.

To be fair, most infantry soldiers on the front line only join up for a few years, and are very young. And most of these wouldn't have families or homes back at home.

Anyway I'm not here to compare soldiers to firefighters. They both do an excellent job, that is both difficult and very dangerous. And they are both under paid for what they do.

chewmylegoff

Jamie_Carter wrote: »

I wasn't actually talking about at admin level. There are lazy admin staff in all sectors. I was actually talking about those at higher levels, who do a lot of things that joe public would never know about. Because I have worked with some of these people. I expected them to be pompus, and looking down their nose at us. But in fact they were very knowledgeable, and extremely hard working. And what really surprised me was that if I made a good suggestion, they would sometimes implement it immediately.

but this is the tiny minority of civil servants isn't it? having worked in the civil service, i had the same experience, but where i was what you say above describes 2% of the staff at best.

paulmapp8306

grizzly1911 wrote: »

Is the equipment charged to an external private company or to another inhouse governement supplier?

Just curious.

Its a contract from a civilian firm - though its a national contract bought together with the administration software.

paulmapp8306

Jamie_Carter wrote: »

I wasn't actually talking about at admin level. There are lazy admin staff in all sectors. I was actually talking about those at higher levels, who do a lot of things that joe public would never know about. Because I have worked with some of these people. I expected them to be pompus, and looking down their nose at us. But in fact they were very knowledgeable, and extremely hard working. And what really surprised me was that if I made a good suggestion, they would sometimes implement it immediately.

This is true - however they are actually a very small % of the MOD, green skin or otherwise.

Jamie_Carter

chewmylegoff wrote: »

but this is the tiny minority of civil servants isn't it? having worked in the civil service, i had the same experience, but where i was what you say above describes 2% of the staff at best.

Plenty of them are very hard working (probably nearer 70%). But as in any working environment, there will be many who do as little as possible.

Jamie_Carter

paulmapp8306 wrote: »

Its a contract from a civilian firm - though its a national contract bought together with the administration software.

So I presume they were bought as a job lot then?

Obviously some departments would need the secure laptops, and others didn't. So in a way you can understand why they bought the same for everyone. Otherwise can you imagine the chaos if they all had different systems, that couldn't communicate with each other?

Anyway, I bet those toughbooks worked far better than the ones that I had to use.

Hmm71

Loughton_Monkey wrote: »

Phew!

Where do I start?

I have no children to 'school' or 'educate' and I go to a private dentist. I would much rather the Health & Safety executive be sacked in entirity.........

How do you know how much tax I've paid?

More to the point, how can anybody (let alone I) be "quite pleased" with services that come at a huge uneconomic cost, delivered by (generally) inadequate overpaid people?

Being a 'boomer' has nothing to do with it! Us boomers did quite well (thank you very much) with a public sector (and cost thereof) that was a mere fraction of what it is today.

Do you not recognise that there may just be a correlation here?

Could you provide some figures of how many public sector workers there were back then compared to now? Just to back up your assertion if you wouldn't mind.

paulmapp8306

Jamie_Carter wrote: »

So I presume they were bought as a job lot then?

Obviously some departments would need the secure laptops, and others didn't. So in a way you can understand why they bought the same for everyone. Otherwise can you imagine the chaos if they all had different systems, that couldn't communicate with each other?

Anyway, I bet those toughbooks worked far better than the ones that I had to use.

There not bought - there leased. We can change them whenever we wish - between desktops, unsecured and secured laptops. we can change the location of the terminals. Each change costs a set figure, but we all use different devices.

The contract was to supply, maintain, move etc the complete systems hardware and software.

Ultimately, most people have desktops. We have laptops because initially they were needed, as we did work at different sites. Post the NI peace process though, most admin work is only done in the office - so we no longer neee the laptops.

I we exchanged the laptops, if would have cost us £700 (+ Vat) but we would only be paying £120/month contract for hardware. As it is we are paying £1440/month for the laptops.

The "contract" is paid for from a central fund. The "hardware changes" are paid for by the fund to the site.

to me its simple maths - to the budget holders its not - its about how it affects HIS budget only, not the whol picture.

grizzly1911

paulmapp8306 wrote: »

This is true. and one area where it should all be civil serveants. Officers get put in post for 3 years with NO knowledge of how to negotiate a contract, or how to word one. they make desicions and are gone before the process is complete - invariably leading to over paying for the equipment and agreeing to very costly support/modification agreements.

we should have a dedicated procurement agency, staffed by permanant civilians, with expertise in contract negotiation.

I have personally worked with an ex MOD "civillian" professional procurement manager on a private sector logistics contract ( I was the "purchaser" and the business knowledge /requirement)- he was a nightmare. Didn't last long.

paulmapp8306

Pay peanuts get monkeys (not you - the MOD), which in fact they do. It may seem like a lot - but the wages are not actually as good as private equivilant, hence the monkeys.

Thing is when they leave after doing the job for a while - they think there comptant - and quite clearly (not least from your experience) there not.