Life with a dog agressive dog...

lostinrates

:A

rising_from_the_ashes wrote: »

As the owner of one of the run up and want to play dogs (we're working on it!) - as I've said before, she only gets off lead under very strict conditions and is called back / put on if we see another dog - whether it's on a lead or not.

I just wished it worked both ways - last night, out with Maisie in the woods, saw a couple with 3 dogs approaching so put her back on the lead. Now - surely this should've made them think ..... "oh maybe we better put ours on leads" but nope! All 3 of them were jumping all over her - now luckily she does really just want to play so I let her off and they had a great time but if she had been dog aggressive then heaven knows what would've happened.

Some people just don't have any common sense!

Maybe their experience shows them their dogs are good at interpreting the difference between 'i wanna play' and 'i wanna kill you' ? I don't put my dogs on leads often, but i do call them back to heel and give other walker a wide berth.

minimad1970

Does anyone know, if I muzzle my Border Terrier, he suffers from fear aggression after being attacked twice, obviously he would be unable to defend himself. Could he give off a vibe that could make other dogs want to attack him? As I assume his fear would be increased. He goes from being submissive to dominant quite randomly, or so it appears to me. He likes it when dogs come over and then just start to play, he hates it when they spend too long sniffing him, I can see him becoming uneasy when this happens. He kind of cowers a bit as though he's unsure of what to do. Sorry to hijack your thread GR but it's kind of relevant.:)

mrs_sparrow

gettingready wrote: »

totao c r a p - where is the definition of dog being under control?

and what exactly does this mean:

the bold bit - on that basis.. all shoppers should be arrested on the basis that shop keepers MAY worry they MAY steal from them, all men should be arrested on the basis that some woman MAY THINK they MAY rape here etc etc

total nonsese in wording

Wow. You come across as quite an unpleasant and aggressive dog owner to be honest - does your dog pick up on this and so behaves in the same way?

My dog IS under control and if anyone feels like above - they are wellcome NOT to walk STRAIGHT at us with their out of control dogs in a massive open space/woods then if they are so concerned - my lead is visible from quite far away

So, you have a dog that is unpredictable and aggressive so everyone else has to walk out of your way? And on the street? Is everyone expected to get out of your way? And what if there was another dog on the bus? Would you get on anyway knowing that your dog might go for the other dog with children on board?? It's a serious question BTW. Kids love a snarling growling dog you know, not afraid at all.

You can argue the law being total crap if anything ever happens, you are clearly not bothered and happy to take that chance - and I hope for your poor dogs sake, it does not and that the next dog your dog goes for does not have an owner who is a policeman, dog warden or solicitor. Fingers crossed eh?

My dog jumps up so I keep her on the lead as you have clearly read, she is not aggressive just wants a fuss from everyone, however, she is a SBT and will be perceived as dangerous so she is on the lead. If she also snapped she would have a muzzle on. End of. This is not for my benefit but for hers.

When we are out in open spaces - despite her having good recall - she is on the lead because she runs over and jumps up at people if they appear out of nowhere, as people do sometimes, yes, badly behaved as you put it (however, pots and kettles and all that I say aggression comes way higher up the 'bad behaviour list than jumping up, right? I do not expect anyone tog et out of MY way when walking though), unfortunately it is a very hard habit to get friendly dogs out of when so many people encourage her because she is a pedigree and they want to fuss and cuddle her - even when I ask them not to they say 'it's alright'. I could blame other people for making her this way however, to protect her SHE IS ON THE LEAD. ALL THE TIME. This is what I have to do to protect HER. I do not blame other dog owners for encouraging this behaviour as you are doing by saying 'your dogs come too close, it's their fault' YOU have to take responsibility for anything your dog MIGHT do. I'd love to let my dog run around the loads of open fields we have here but as she jumps up at people I cannot let her run off lead. I love her way too much to risk someone reporting her for being a dangerous dog and her being PTS.

No matter what anyone elses dogs are doing, your dog is unpredictable and for that reason it should not even be off the lead and it should be muzzled - it is your responsibility to ensure that your dog cannot harm another, despite what that other dogs manners are like. You could try arguing that in court but I doubt it would get your anywhere.

Let's hope that your luck does not run out and one day you are on here telling us sad news or that you are arguing that the law is 'total crap'. You'll only have yourself to blame.

Be responsible, your dog needs to be on a lead and muzzled at all times, not just when you feel like it because 'it's not fair' or whatever reason you are going to use, because that is pretty selfish for both your dog and other dog owners you come across.

I just hope for your poor dogs sake that nothing ever happens to him because you are too proud to put a muzzle on him. We do what we can to protect our pets, and that includes protecting them from being reported for undesirable behaviours, that is our duty as owners, if you cannot do that then you have to ask yourself why it's such an issue, do you not want to protect him from being accused or taken away?

Somehow I feel this is wasted breath, this is not the first time you;ve posted something like this so it clearly is ongoing, and I've said my piece on this so I'll not be posting or reading anymore. Good luck.

gettingready

mrs_sparrow - I am not even going to answer your posts in details point by point. Honestly, completely over the top and mostly completely wrong both about me and my dog as well. So I am just gonna leave it.

Just this:

Wow. You come across as quite an unpleasant and aggressive dog owner

How? As I say the law is stupid and open to MANY interpretations (so c r a p ). Law should be specific, there should be clear definitions not what this one says. Simples.

krlyr

minimad1970 wrote: »

Does anyone know, if I muzzle my Border Terrier, he suffers from fear aggression after being attacked twice, obviously he would be unable to defend himself. Could he give off a vibe that could make other dogs want to attack him? As I assume his fear would be increased. He goes from being submissive to dominant quite randomly, or so it appears to me. He likes it when dogs come over and then just start to play, he hates it when they spend too long sniffing him, I can see him becoming uneasy when this happens. He kind of cowers a bit as though he's unsure of what to do. Sorry to hijack your thread GR but it's kind of relevant.:)

Like I said, I don't quite buy into the dominance and submission that some trainers on TV peddle but if your boy is giving mixed signals this could confuse other dogs - he may not be being dominant but perhaps putting on a bit of a bravado out of nerves/fear and then getting a bit overwhelmed by it all so trying to appease the dog with submissive type behaviour. I've heard of some fearful dogs actually being the first one to initiate contact by running up to strange dogs which seems like a confident move, but then throwing themselves onto their backs, belly up, etc. to appease the dog.

However, if muzzling him makes you feel more confident then he may sense this and relax a bit more. Plus, as I said to GR, if it makes people think twice about approaching you, it can help make any interactions he does have more positive as you can arrange friends or local dogwalkers to meet up with you, rather than have all these strange dogs popping up all over the place. It works a lot better for Casper and me to have this control over which dogs he meets and in what situation, and he can cope with stranger dogs at a distance, perhaps knowing that there is no expectation to greet them.

Faith177

Hi gettingready sorry to hear of your troubles with Zara I'm sure you will get them sorted I know how much you love your babies!

I don't know if you have seen about this http://www.dogster.com/lifestyle/yellow-ribbon-leash-dogs-campaign

I don't know if that would help at all might just give her the breathing space she needs?

It might be totally useless but I just couldn't leave without saying something.

rosyw

As someone who very rarely posts on this section of the boards but has read through this thread with interest, I just want to say well said mrs_sparrow!

Where I live virtually everyone walks their dogs ON LEADS, and we have no reason to think that because they are on leads they may be aggressive! If they were wearing muzzles however, everyone would clearly be aware of a potential problem and keep away. I have a young Lurcher, always walked on a lead as I know if she came across a rabbit or squirrel, of which there are plenty, she would be off! There is one particularly aggressive GSD, very well known in the area, which is only ever put on a lead when the owner sees other dogs approaching, we then have to either change the route we are on, or face a few minutes of snarling, barking etc., whilst giving the dog as wide a berth as possible, with our dogs cowering in fear! It is only a matter of time before this dog causes serious harm to another, or to an owner, or both, simply because it's owner refuses to muzzle it. Oh I'm sure the owner will be very sorry when it happens, but it shouldn't be allowed to happen in the first place. When I first met this dog I had a very well behaved Rottie, again always kept on a lead, and who was a real softie but I dread to think what could have happened if the owner hadn't managed to get the lead clipped on in time and my boy thought I was being attacked!
The law isn't "c r a p", it is there to protect EVERYONE, including you as the owner of a potentially aggressive and unpredictable dog.

gettingready

the law iS crap as it does not specify what "under control" means.

That is why it IS c r a p.

Pls do read the posts with trying to understand before commenting at completely wrong angle.

krlyr

Faith177 wrote: »

Hi gettingready sorry to hear of your troubles with Zara I'm sure you will get them sorted I know how much you love your babies!

I don't know if you have seen about this http://www.dogster.com/lifestyle/yellow-ribbon-leash-dogs-campaign

I don't know if that would help at all might just give her the breathing space she needs?

It might be totally useless but I just couldn't leave without saying something.

As an owner of two reactive dogs in a row (so dealing with it for about 9 years now), it's a nice thoguht but wishful thinking IMO. Some people take little notice of a lead and muzzle so I doubt a yellow ribbon will make a bit of difference! The issue is generally not with the responsible owners who will be online reading that sort of information and taking it into consideration, but the fair weather walkers and numpties that think their dog can run up to any dog it wants with no consequence.

As others have said, it's unfair, but in life, you're probably the only person you can truly rely on to look after yourself, whatever the law says. A bit like driving - you have to be aware of what other drivers are doing, you can be the best driver in the world, on a road with clearly marked lanes, plenty of space, a sensible speed limit, great weather conditions, and still have an idiot veer into the side of you. The law may be on your side but you're still left with a damaged car, a time consuming insurance claim and the stress and worry of it all.
Or I own my own house, I still have to lock the front door to prevent a burglar - the law says they shouldn't break in but it doesn't stop it happening. I'll get a payout from my insurers and the burglar may be punished if caught, but I may still lose sentimental items and perhaps lose the sense of privacy/safety in my own home as a result.

If an incident occured, GR and Zara may be the ones in the right by law but what if Zara was injured in the altercation? What if it makes her behaviour 10x worse? What if GR gets bitten in the crossfire? Sometimes you have to go beyond the protection of the law and make the extra effort to protect yourself.

I am confident that Casper won't bite - no more than a non-reactive dog, perhaps even less because he will be hiding away and mentally shutting down, whereas a non-reactive dog may stand up for itself and retaliate to an attack. So I don't muzzle him very often, but I do use a headcollar for the extra security it affords me and the benefit for him too (I can lead him away from another dog while he's panicking, rather than have to stay put because I can't physically move him). If I thought he may bite (which I wasn't sure of for a while, hence muzzling him a lot more in the past) then I would, at the very least, carry a muzzle on me at all times. I tend to keep a muzzle in my dog-walking bag and one in the car anyway, just incase. If Zara has actually had a pop at dogs she knows, I would be concerned that she may be more likely to retaliate if cornered and that in itself could escalate the situation and result in dog or human injuries, and for that reason I would be highly tempted to muzzle her even when on-lead. It's not fair, but it protects Zara - and if the muzzle is introduced correctly it's not even going to have any negative impact on Zara. You can remove it in safe areas to let her play fetch, but a basket muzzle will still allow her to sniff through leaves, pant and drink. Plus the benefit of perhaps discouraging other dog owners to let their dog approach her, which then benefits everyone.

gettingready

Thanks - the thing is... she never ever reacts to dogs that have a go at her first. Ever. And it did happen, several times. She just ignores them and walks with me.