Brighton (All Stations) - What does it mean?

thelawnet

Tilt wrote: »

I think you will find that it means valid from any station with the name 'Brighton' in it. Obviously there is more than one station in Brighton. Bit like Portsmouth and Southsea and Portsmouth Harbour. But although Fratton is also in Portsmouth, a ticket wouldn't be valid unless it had the name 'Fratton' printed on it.

No that's wrong.

It means that they have done you the convenience of searching for, wait for it, drum roll......

tickets from all stations in Brighton. Tickets from one station in Brighton may or may not be valid from the other.

If it said Brighton Stations that would mean the ticket is valid from 'Brighton Stations', which as a matter of fact included Hove. However, Brighton Stations no longer exists, so that's not what's happening.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Station_group_(railway)


I think you will find that the cheaper ticket from Brighton is restricted to First Capital Connect trains only. FCC do not serve Hove, so to use this ticket you will need to buy a Hove-Brighton ticket and then ONLY use the FCC trains between Brighton and Croydon. This will likely wipe out your potential savings and be more restricted.

Tilt

Oh God, sometimes I don't know why I bother! I used to travel quite frequently to and from Portsmouth Harbour or Portsmouth & Southsea to the Midlands. The fare is only every been the same from either of the 2 stations called 'Portsmouth'. If I book to/from Fratton for example, the fare is different (i.e. cheaper). So as the OP is asking why there is a price difference between that of booking from Hove to Croydon compared to booking from Brighton (all stations), I reckon my explanation makes sense. Just because a group of stations happen to be in the same area dosn't mean there are no differences in the fares depending on which of those stations you are travelling from.

bb21

Johnjohn wrote: »

I want to buy two tickets from Hove to East Croydon for tomorrow.

When I search online I find that it is much cheaper to travel from Brighton to East Croydon than it is from Hove to East Croydon.

There are two routeings you can choose for your ticket. If you can recall the price of the ticket then I am sure people will be able to tell you which routeing is printed on the ticket.

Johnjohn wrote: »

However the search results show Brighton [All Stations] to East Croydon. Does this mean I can use these tickets from Hove? - given that Hove is within the city of Brighton and Hove..

Brighton [All Stations] would apply to all stations within the Brighton fares group, which coincidentally contains Brighton as the only station.

Johnjohn wrote: »

The lady at the Hove ticket office says I can't, but I don't always trust the advice given by ticket office staff.

If the ticket is routed FCC Only then you are not permitted to use it at Hove, as no FCC service serves that station.

If the ticket is routed Any Permitted then you are perfectly allowed to travel via Hove as Brighton - Hove - East Croydon is a permitted route according to the National Routeing Guide on a Brighton - East Croydon ticket. I cannot see any break of journey restriction on any of the walk-on fares, therefore you may start and end short at Hove. However you are not permitted to travel between Hove and East Croydon via Brighton as that would be over-riding. You must use the avoiding line if going to/from Hove.

yorkie2

Tilt wrote: »

Oh God, sometimes I don't know why I bother!.

I am sure you mean well, but your disclaimer in your signature does not wash with me. Yes, we all make mistakes, but your explanations are very incorrect. I would recommend you leave it to fares experts to answer questions like this.

I agree with WickedWolfie's suggestion that train ticket questions are best asked at a place where experts are on hand to help.

thelawnet and bb21 are correct.

bb21

For clarification, there are two different meanings depending on the context when the word group is used.

The first refers to the fares group (for ticketing purposes). This can normally be seen from what is printed on a ticket, eg. Portsmouth Stns, Manchester Stns, Glasgow Cen/Qst. Some stations are grouped together for ticketing purposes and tickets are usually issued to/from the fares group unless travelling between stations within the same group, in which case specific stations will be used, as a general rule. Therefore a passenger wishing to travel from Portsmouth Harbour to Manchester Victoria will be issued a ticket from Portsmouth Stns to Manchester Stns, whereas a passenger wishing to travel from Portsmouth Harbour to Portsmouth & Southsea will be given a ticket issued from Portsmouth Hbr to Portsmouth & S.

The other concept is that of station groups for routeing purposes. This is mainly used in accordance with the National Routeing Guide for calculating permitted routes. The members of a routeing group can differ significantly from the members of a fares group for the same locality. For example, Portsmouth routeing group consists of the eight stations mentioned by WickedWolfie in this post, although the Portsmouth fares group contains only two stations: Portsmouth Harbour and Portsmouth & Southsea. A passenger travelling to/from Fratton will be issued with a ticket to/from Fratton. Manchester routeing group consists of six stations: Manchester Piccadilly, Manchester Oxford Road, Manchester Victoria, Deansgate G-Mex, Salford Central and Salford Crescent, however the Manchester fares group consists only the first four station mentioned in the above list. Therefore it is also incorrect to state that the fares group refers only to stations containing the name of the group.

thelawnet

Tilt wrote: »

So as the OP is asking why there is a price difference between that of booking from Hove to Croydon compared to booking from Brighton (all stations), I reckon my explanation makes sense. Just because a group of stations happen to be in the same area dosn't mean there are no differences in the fares depending on which of those stations you are travelling from.

In fact the fares from Brighton to Croydon and Hove to Croydon are priced the same if you take the any permitted ticket, it isn't issue of Brighton being closer so cheaper, they are both deemed equivalent journeys. However there is competition over the line from Brighton, but not from Hove, so the result is that First Capital Connect, who run trains from Bedford through London to Brighton, offer cheaper fares to attract customers - and money - away from the dominant operator, Southern Railways, who run trains from Hove to London and from Brighton to London.

First Capital Connect could not offer this same lower fare to passengers from Hove because passengers from Hove would have to use the Southern Railways service either to Brighton, or all the way through to London.

Tilt

yorkie2 wrote: »

I am sure you mean well, but your disclaimer in your signature does not wash with me. Yes, we all make mistakes, but your explanations are very incorrect. I would recommend you leave it to fares experts to answer questions like this.

thelawnet and bb21 are correct.

My signature is fairly straight forward as far as I'm concerned. If you think otherwise then I suggest you speak to a site team member.

My contribution here was merely from my experiences travelling to/from Portsmouth where there is more than one station. But, (as I have found) that dosn't necessarily mean that the fares are the same travelling to or from any of the other stations in the same 'group'.

According to the 'correct' posters, the OP was possibly given the incorrect information from a member of station staff as well.

As a final note, I no longer travel by train as it now works out cheaper (and quicker) making the journey between Portsmouth and the Midlands by car.

Tilt

thelawnet wrote: »

In fact the fares from Brighton to Croydon and Hove to Croydon are priced the same if you take the any permitted ticket, it isn't issue of Brighton being closer so cheaper, they are both deemed equivalent journeys. However there is competition over the line from Brighton, but not from Hove, so the result is that First Capital Connect, who run trains from Bedford through London to Brighton, offer cheaper fares to attract customers - and money - away from the dominant operator, Southern Railways, who run trains from Hove to London and from Brighton to London.

First Capital Connect could not offer this same lower fare to passengers from Hove because passengers from Hove would have to use the Southern Railways service either to Brighton, or all the way through to London.

So much for privatisation benefiting the travelling public eh? Too many different TOCs and fares to contend with for my liking.

thelawnet

I don't really see how having the option of a lower fare is not beneficial.

If you want to pay full fare, you can.

If you want to stick to FCC trains and pay less, you can also.

Johnjohn

Thanks for all your replies.

Putting it all together it would seem that I can't use the cheaper tickets to travel from Hove as they are for First Capital Connect trains only which don't travel to Hove.

In my more reckless days I might have tried buying one to see what would happen if I got stopped. I wonder if a Magistrate would think it "reasonable" for someone buying a Brighton (All Stations) to think it allowed travel to Hove. Or for that matter whether it is misleading of the train company to advertise a ticket as Brighton (All Stations) when it does not allow travel to Hove - which is part of the Brighton and Hove unitary authority.