delicate subject - abortion

lazer

lazer wrote: »

Its 2 fold - its about the life of the mother and the life of the child.

I do not value the life of the foetus differently in both situations, as it is a human life and any decision to terminate it should not be taken lightly, but the woman is also a human life which is to be valued equally to the foetus (Her life is not more valuable than the foetus, they are both equally valuable - but forcing a woman to carry a child conceived through rape, could potentially result in attempted suicide, home attempts at abortion etc which are not benefical to either the woman or the foetus).

amus wrote: »

Why is it that you see the life of an early foetus that cannot feel, think, see etc. more than a living, breathing fully formed human beeing with thoughts and emotions?

Is it because of your religious convictions i.e. is it your belief that the soul enters the body at the moment of conception?

As above - I do not value it more, I value all human life equally, the rights of one do not override the rights of another, all human life should be preserved where possible.

Person_one

lazer wrote: »

As above - I do not value it more, I value all human life equally, the rights of one do not override the rights of another, all human life should be preserved where possible.

Nice to know my plans, my life, my desires and my ownership of my own body are less important than the continuing existence of a non sentient embryo the size of a grape.

PolkaDotsAndLace

I'm also not sure WHY people want unwanted children born into this world - the parents not wanting them doesn't make for a happy childhood.

Adoption isn't the wonderful solution it's made out to be in these debates - there are plenty of children in care after all.

heartbreak_star

Problem with adoption is that people just want tiny cute babies - once they're past that stage a lot of potential parents lose interest. I had this argument with one of my mum's friends - she is infertile but wishes to adopt - and at 42 they would not consider her for a baby but asked if she would be willing to take a young child instead (nursery to first school age). Her reply was "no, if I can't have a baby I'd rather remain childless" and her reasoning "I can't hold a four-year-old in my arms and give them a bottle". I think that attitude is very selfish.

HBS x

Person_one

heartbreak_star wrote: »

Problem with adoption is that people just want tiny cute babies - once they're past that stage a lot of potential parents lose interest. I had this argument with one of my mum's friends - she is infertile but wishes to adopt - and at 42 they would not consider her for a baby but asked if she would be willing to take a young child instead (nursery to first school age). Her reply was "no, if I can't have a baby I'd rather remain childless" and her reasoning "I can't hold a four-year-old in my arms and give them a bottle". I think that attitude is very selfish.

HBS x

Not really, its just like abortion if you think about it. If that woman doesn't feel able to become a mother to an older child then she doesn't, its not an easy road and not everybody is suitable.

She shouldn't be expected to feel guilty or be called selfish for that anymore than women who don't want to be pregnant and make babies should.

lazer

Person_one wrote: »

Nice to know my plans, my life, my desires and my ownership of my own body are less important than the continuing existence of a non sentient embryo the size of a grape.

Not less important - equally important - you continue to own your body, but there is also a growing child in your body.

A child is a gift, it is a precious life to be be celebrated, not destroyed.

PolkaDotsAndLace wrote: »

I'm also not sure WHY people want unwanted children born into this world - the parents not wanting them doesn't make for a happy childhood.

Adoption isn't the wonderful solution it's made out to be in these debates - there are plenty of children in care after all.

There is a waiting list for babies for a adoption in most areas actually, that only leaves of the question of if there was more babies being given up for adoption, would this impact the number of older children being adopted, persoanlly I don't believe so, as the people on the waiting lists have already decided they want a baby not an older child.

Also, the child is (And I know this is only IMO) in the world from the moment of conception.

What if the child is wanted by the father, grandparents etc?

Person_one

lazer wrote: »

Not less important - equally important - you continue to own your body, but there is also a growing child in your body.

A child is a gift, it is a precious life to be be celebrated, not destroyed.

Gifts can be returned.

I'm not an incubator, thanks.

lazer

heartbreak_star wrote: »

Problem with adoption is that people just want tiny cute babies - once they're past that stage a lot of potential parents lose interest. I had this argument with one of my mum's friends - she is infertile but wishes to adopt - and at 42 they would not consider her for a baby but asked if she would be willing to take a young child instead (nursery to first school age). Her reply was "no, if I can't have a baby I'd rather remain childless" and her reasoning "I can't hold a four-year-old in my arms and give them a bottle". I think that attitude is very selfish.

HBS x

I don't see it as selfish either, its her own decision.

She desires a child to raise as her own, an older child will already have a personality, may have experienced trauma etc. I think it must be very hard to take a older child and try to raise it as your own, the child will not recognise you as a mother, you have to wait for it to be ready to call you mum etc, it will most likely remember its own parent/parents and can make the adoption process much more difficult.

Personally, If i was to adopt I would prefer a baby, but if that were not an option, I would adopt an older child.

Aside from that I think it is very wrong that someone is told at 42 they are too old to adopt a baby.

Person_one

lazer wrote: »

She desires a child to raise as her own, an older child will already have a personality, may have experienced trauma etc. I think it must be very hard to take a older child and try to raise it as your own, the child will not recognise you as a mother, you have to wait for it to be ready to call you mum etc, it will most likely remember its own parent/parents and can make the adoption process much more difficult.

I find it baffling that you refer to an unwanted embryo as a precious gift but a living, troubled child is an 'it'.

lazer

Person_one wrote: »

Gifts can be returned.

I'm not an incubator, thanks.

We will never agree on this subject, to me a foetus is a life to be valued from the moment of conception, you don't agree with this and think that the womans right to decide what happens to her body is of greater importance to the life inside her.
I will not change your thoughts, you will not change mine, that is the nature of any abortion debate.

On another note - it is rude to return gifts, you should graciously accept a gift even if it is not what you want.