Our Wood Pellet Boiler decisions.........

alleycat`

nande2000 wrote: »

Just out of interest what prices are you getting quoted for pellets ? I've been contacting suppliers and they are all in the process of putting their prices up 10% Worrying considering oil has been at the same price for the past 2 years. I would be expecting the price of pellets to go down not up.

Time of year thing possibly?
September is usually when they increase the price of solid fuels and logs.
Oil starts to creep up around this time too.

You might find it slides back in April but i don't know how the pellet market works and if it follows the same sort of pattern or not.

nande2000

According to an article on the White Horse Energy website no. Seems that £250 / tonne is a standard price that everyone is moving to in the UK and its not expected to go any higher for a few years as wood pellets can be sourced from other regions (South America, Canada, and Africa for the same price.

Doesnt sound particularly eco friendly though, wood pellets made from felled rainforest ???

contrarian52

DanRichards wrote: »

Well, after another chat with our favoured installer, we have decided to go ahead with the work. We did talk about Grant Boilers as an option, but it would have pushed us out of our price range. The guy only had good things to say about them, but we couldn't have afford it, and also it seemed not to be suited to our house and setup.

The things with wood pellets really seem to be that everybodys situation is different and so different boilers and setups are going to work better for some and not for others. I'm thinking that this'll mean there wont necessarily be a "winning" boiler for everybody, it depends on price, current heating situation etc.

Anyway, decision made. I'll be updating (with pics if possible) when the install happens, then as regularly as needs be after that with regards to heating costs etc.

WooHoo!!!!

We sell and install biomass boilers, including pellet boilers from 10 kW up to 400kW. Various points have been raised about guarantees, servicing, durability.
Pellet stoves have been on the market in Italy from at least 1994. Despite what is thought in the UK, it is not a new or novel system, and the bugs have been ironed out of the system, and the back up is as good, if not far better than many oil/ gas systems We have sold a lot of pellet boilers, and the demand for repairs / spares is small, and we keep good stocks of parts that are likely to wear/break. The country we mainly buy from is 1/3 rd heated by timber, and of that 40% is domestic pellet heating.
It does concern me that there are many very pricey pellet boilers for sale. I have seen boiler units that will heat a small house, priced at £14000! We do units from about £3000. Typically the more expensive units are more automated, but putting in a couple of 10kg bags a day, and removing the granular ash, which might come to 1 litre volume every week, is not exactly onerous.
Likewise, the fact that there are not pellet cookers below £6000 is ridiculous. I can buy a new car for that price!
Trying to hit some other points, and I am trying to avoid doing some stupid selling routine. The use of insulated internal very large water tanks, or accumulators is not necessary, if the boiler size fits the usage adequately. All the units we deal with, do not need these ridiculous tanks. I say ridiculous, because even a 1500 l tank is big enough to park a BMC Mini inside, vertically, and it holds little heat. A 900 l tank, can store enough heat to run a typical 20 kW system for 2 hours 15 mins.
There is no "standard answer" about heating a house. All differ in requirements. Log gasification units and chip boilers are for the afficianados. They both need accumulators, but also much more interest and technical awareness than most people have. They are more expensive to install, and require a lot of time and labour. Chip unit are really for 50kW +, and start around £25,000.
Do your research, and understand what you want from the heating system.
We are not MCZ agents, but their Compact 24 is a good reliable unit, for a boiler house. Remember the pellet storage. Up to this sort of size, you can manually feed from 10 kg bags. Above 30kW you should aim to bulk feed .
Fuel prices: ex USA about £80-100/t. Ex liverpool £140-180/T from docks. There are MANY new pellet producers, and the price is likely to decline to £180-200, as competition bites.

lovesgshp

contrarian52 wrote: »

We sell and install biomass boilers, including pellet boilers from 10 kW up to 400kW. Various points have been raised about guarantees, servicing, durability.
Pellet stoves have been on the market in Italy from at least 1994. Despite what is thought in the UK, it is not a new or novel system, and the bugs have been ironed out of the system, and the back up is as good, if not far better than many oil/ gas systems We have sold a lot of pellet boilers, and the demand for repairs / spares is small, and we keep good stocks of parts that are likely to wear/break. The country we mainly buy from is 1/3 rd heated by timber, and of that 40% is domestic pellet heating.
It does concern me that there are many very pricey pellet boilers for sale. I have seen boiler units that will heat a small house, priced at £14000! We do units from about £3000. Typically the more expensive units are more automated, but putting in a couple of 10kg bags a day, and removing the granular ash, which might come to 1 litre volume every week, is not exactly onerous.
Likewise, the fact that there are not pellet cookers below £6000 is ridiculous. I can buy a new car for that price!
Trying to hit some other points, and I am trying to avoid doing some stupid selling routine. The use of insulated internal very large water tanks, or accumulators is not necessary, if the boiler size fits the usage adequately. All the units we deal with, do not need these ridiculous tanks. I say ridiculous, because even a 1500 l tank is big enough to park a BMC Mini inside, vertically, and it holds little heat. A 900 l tank, can store enough heat to run a typical 20 kW system for 2 hours 15 mins.
There is no "standard answer" about heating a house. All differ in requirements. Log gasification units and chip boilers are for the afficianados. They both need accumulators, but also much more interest and technical awareness than most people have. They are more expensive to install, and require a lot of time and labour. Chip unit are really for 50kW +, and start around £25,000.
Do your research, and understand what you want from the heating system.
We are not MCZ agents, but their Compact 24 is a good reliable unit, for a boiler house. Remember the pellet storage. Up to this sort of size, you can manually feed from 10 kg bags. Above 30kW you should aim to bulk feed .
Fuel prices: ex USA about £80-100/t. Ex liverpool £140-180/T from docks. There are MANY new pellet producers, and the price is likely to decline to £180-200, as competition bites.

Yes, there are many pellet boilers in Italy. The biggest complaint that we hear is the noise factor of the fan. Imported pellets, do not always have a low ash/heat output either.

nande2000

contrarian52 wrote: »

We sell and install biomass boilers, including pellet boilers from 10 kW up to 400kW. Various points have been raised about guarantees, servicing, durability.
Pellet stoves have been on the market in Italy from at least 1994. Despite what is thought in the UK, it is not a new or novel system, and the bugs have been ironed out of the system, and the back up is as good, if not far better than many oil/ gas systems We have sold a lot of pellet boilers, and the demand for repairs / spares is small, and we keep good stocks of parts that are likely to wear/break. The country we mainly buy from is 1/3 rd heated by timber, and of that 40% is domestic pellet heating.
It does concern me that there are many very pricey pellet boilers for sale. I have seen boiler units that will heat a small house, priced at £14000! We do units from about £3000. Typically the more expensive units are more automated, but putting in a couple of 10kg bags a day, and removing the granular ash, which might come to 1 litre volume every week, is not exactly onerous.
Likewise, the fact that there are not pellet cookers below £6000 is ridiculous. I can buy a new car for that price!
Trying to hit some other points, and I am trying to avoid doing some stupid selling routine. The use of insulated internal very large water tanks, or accumulators is not necessary, if the boiler size fits the usage adequately. All the units we deal with, do not need these ridiculous tanks. I say ridiculous, because even a 1500 l tank is big enough to park a BMC Mini inside, vertically, and it holds little heat. A 900 l tank, can store enough heat to run a typical 20 kW system for 2 hours 15 mins.
There is no "standard answer" about heating a house. All differ in requirements. Log gasification units and chip boilers are for the afficianados. They both need accumulators, but also much more interest and technical awareness than most people have. They are more expensive to install, and require a lot of time and labour. Chip unit are really for 50kW +, and start around £25,000.
Do your research, and understand what you want from the heating system.
We are not MCZ agents, but their Compact 24 is a good reliable unit, for a boiler house. Remember the pellet storage. Up to this sort of size, you can manually feed from 10 kg bags. Above 30kW you should aim to bulk feed .
Fuel prices: ex USA about £80-100/t. Ex liverpool £140-180/T from docks. There are MANY new pellet producers, and the price is likely to decline to £180-200, as competition bites.

Totally agree with the point around buffer tanks. I have had a few installers tell me they wont install withought buffer tanks, on questioning why they are needed they can never give a satisfactory answer, other than their 'technical director' or such like recommends it.

lovesgshp

nande2000 wrote: »

Totally agree with the point around buffer tanks. I have had a few installers tell me they wont install withought buffer tanks, on questioning why they are needed they can never give a satisfactory answer, other than their 'technical director' or such like recommends it.

Buffer tanks are normaly used on radiator systems to stabilise and reduce boiler startups. Much better if the boiler is heating 200 ltrs of insulated tank.

JaneCarter_2

I also think choose Wood Pellet Boiler is a good idea, although i am also confused how to decrease the cost of heating in the winter.

contrarian52

Geotherm wrote: »

Yes, there are many pellet boilers in Italy. The biggest complaint that we hear is the noise factor of the fan. Imported pellets, do not always have a low ash/heat output either.

The 20 kW boiler I hve in my kitchen is quieter than a new Bosch dish washer. For units indoors, the noise levels seem to be in the 45-47 db range now.
There are 2 distinct markets from 12-30 kW. Some units are intended to be in living areas, and others are for utility/ boiler room location. The former are prettier than the latter "grey" boxes, and often have a fan to provide air heating, of 2-4 kW. The "grey" units are designed to maximise heat to water.
Noise is a subjective matter, and it is worth hearing a demo unit run.
Re pellet quality:
The branded virgin timber pellets are very good, as can be pellets made from recycled timber. The ones to avoid are straw, miscanthus, and "low grade " pellets of African or Indian origin. One major issue with straw etc, is clinkering, and this is due to a factor I was not aware of until recently, and I have an agricultural and forestry background. Simply, if straw / miscanthus etc is grown on acid ground, ie like Cannock Chase, it picks up a lot of Silica, which makes it hell to pelletise well and also, it produces clinker, which rapidly blocks up a lot of standard, top fed, blower cleared burners. (This apparently does not happen with miscanthus grown on alkaline soils.) Ash content also rises. Good pellets produce minimal ash, perhaps 0.5%, or a litre a week approx on a 20kW unit, and it is granular, and good fertiliser, unlike coal ash.
In short, stick to decent timber pellets, and NOT animal bedding grades.

nande2000

Geotherm wrote: »

Buffer tanks are normaly used on radiator systems to stabilise and reduce boiler startups. Much better if the boiler is heating 200 ltrs of insulated tank.

Ok sorry if im hijacking this post about buffer tanks. As far as i understand it the main reason for them is if the boiler is more powerful than the actual need. Like you said you want to avoid startups as they put more strain on the boiler than with a gas or oil boiler..indeed it takes between 2-3 minutes for a wood pellet boiler to fire up as opposed to seconds for an oil/gas boiler.

Question is how is a buffer tank sized then ? Or is the simple solution to avoid a buffer tank to choose a wood pellet boiler that is rated just under (say 95% of) what the heating system needs.

DanRichards

Well, we're just waiting for the last radiator to be plumbed in, then a day of wiring for the 2 thermostats etc, and we're ready to go. Commisioning the bolier should take place on wednesday! Just in time by the looks of the weather.