when you reach breaking point

threemuttleys

Scary reading folks.

We are lucky that we are not doing too badly...but next month I will hear whether or not I will lose my job...if I do, then I really do not know what we will do

PipneyJane

monnagran wrote: »

I don't know if it will comfort anybody but I was born before the war and I've seen all this before. I've lived through the war and the years of austerity and draconian rationing afterwards, The fifties when things started to get a little easier BUT everyone was terrified of nuclear war. I remember the WVS running a 1 in 4 scheme where they set out to train 1 woman in 4 how to survive in the case of a nuclear bomb being dropped. I was at college at the time and we were selected for training.
I remember how to build a 'refuge' room for the family, how to boil a kettle on a flowerpot upturned over a candle, all sorts of useful things (which I've since forgotten). The sixties were OKish but of course people's expectations were much lower then. I had been married 2 years before we achieved our first (second hand) fridge and I spent several years borrowing my MIL's vacuum once a week to clean the house. There were the chaotic 70's when inflation went through the roof and you went round the supermarket trying to get ahead of the assistant who was zapping the new higher prices on goods. That decade also saw the sudden shortages but you never knew what they were going to be before they happened, so no chance of stocking up in preparation - sugar disappeared for a while, also toilet rolls( very inconvenient - sorry). Then we plunged into the eighties with the electricity cuts and the 3 day week etc. The 90's saw us in recession again and here we are in the twenty first century having to deal with the fall out of fiscal mismanagement on a global scale over the last dozen or so years.

My point is that every generation seems to have something very difficult to cope with but we have done it all before and we are quite capable of doing it again. The difference being this time that, as I said before, people's expectations are that much higher these days and younger generations have had no experience in making do and mending and actually going without the things they are used to. No wonder there is general panic. But they will learn and they will cope and we will survive.

It's not nice to be cold - The dreadful winters of 1947 &1962/3 were like nothing we've seen since, and we didn't have central heating, we didn't even have enough fuel to light fires, we didn't have electric blankets or cosy duvets or double glazing or warm clothes, especially in '47. Then we didn't even have enough food so we were often hungry as well as cold. But I at least am here to tell the tale. Whatever happens this coming year I feel sure that we will survive it and perhaps we will appreciate more what we do have.

Last Sunday I met a man who had nothing, and I mean nothing except the clothes he stood up in. Where to start? A hot meal, a sleeping bag, a toothbrush, toothpaste, and soap and a couple of disposable razors, a carrier bag of food, a hug and a listening ear. You would have thought I had given him the crown jewels. "I am now a rich man", he said.

I went home and cried.

Things are looking to be difficult and not very pleasant but we have each other and whatever happens we have far, far more than previous generations have had. I will not depair.

PHEW!

I wish I could thank your post more than once. Thank you for helping that man.

What occurs to me is that we're now onto the second generation of people who've never known anything except easy credit and credit cards. The first generation became adults at the start of the 1980's and now their children have grown up. All they have ever known is "buy now; pay later" and "if you don't have enough credit available, get your limit increased". They have never known delayed gratification.

The children of the 1970's grew up with home-cooked meals, home made clothes and handknitted jumpers. But they were also taught, via advertising, that homemade isn't as good a shop-bought. When they got their hands on easy credit, they went on a huge spending spree, helping to fund the boom of the 1980's. They turned their backs on OS skills, considering them activities for poor people. Or too much effort. "So much easier to buy it. Why bother?" was another attitude.

At one point, in about 1991, I remember sitting around a table with a group of twenty-somethings, comparing notes. They were all aspirational young professional types. All had overdrafts. All had credit card debts. All had this sense of entitlement that the good times would go on forever. (This was just before the recession started to bite.) I also remember lots of talk about their parents refinancing their homes to go on holidays, or to buy holiday homes or to buy new cars. Within a year, interest rates hit 16% and house prices tumbled as thousands of homes were repossessed.

And now the children of those people are reaching adulthood. They don't really know how to cook because mum bought frozen ready meals and/or opened a jar instead of cooking from scratch ("too time consuming"). They can't sew or knit or crochet, because they were never taught ("only poor people make their own clothes"). They're not too sure about DIY skills, either, because it was "easier to get a man in to do that sort of thing". As for basic motor maintenance, "isn't that what the garage is for?".

The only difference between them and their parents is that they can't borrow from their parents if they get into financial difficulty, because mum and dad are so deeply in hock that they'll never be able to retire and have been borrowing of their own parents for years.

(Heavens, I sound cynical today!)

threemuttleys

I agree so much with the previous post.

I have had to teach myself to cook, to budget and to manage a household. My mother did not teach me.

I am trying to find someone to teach me to sew (I can do a running stitch and that is it!) I cannot knit or crochet, and I cannot do DIY (other than paint) I am trying to remedy all of this...but I wish I had been taught.

I truly believe that things are going to get very very tough. Full time jobs are becoming scarce, and finding even a part time job is a struggle. For me, I earn 6.30ph (I know, I got a 15p pay rise) but £4 of that goes to the childminder!

PipneyJane

Butterfly_Brain wrote: »

Thanks for the information PipneyJane x

I hope it helps.

cjez_2

I'm not a buy now pay later type. Even though thats my generation. Probably because my parents are older. I'm 26 and my dad is 65 and mum coming up for 60. We were poor when I was growing up and I knew it. Kinda hate how people go "I don't know if we were poor when I was a kid". If you don't know then you weren't or your family are in debt. I never got a "new" bike, I got a second hand one but loved it! My mum taught me how to be good with money and even now I am!! None of my siblings are in debt. My brother grows his own veg! My mum had a hard time as a kid in the 60s- had to walk to school with holes in her shoes so she stuck cardboard in them and got her socks wet, then would heat them on a radiator and got in trouble for that. She always made sure we had good quality clothes and in fact made many of my dresses. We didn't have much but had fun and had the important things. I hate waste and a wasteful attitude. I really appreciate how I was brought up. I never asked for anything as a kid as I knew we couldn't afford things but I had what I needed. My mum tells her grandkids this (my sister's kids) as they are always asking for new this and that. It makes me happy that she appreciates that I wasn't a demanding kid. I was truly happy with the time she spent with me and all the children's stories she'd make up- I wouldn't have changed that for a tv in my room (that I shared with my two sisters) or an iphone or any of that material rubbish!!

PipneyJane

mardatha wrote: »

I hope to hell we don't go back to the old days when people had to work so hard all their lives to scrape by on a slice of bread & jam - but we have the power in our hands to stop that happening. With everything that's going on I still don't hear anybody opposing the govt ! We all seem to sit and take it and watch the big company profits go higher and higher while we're squeezed harder and harder. So maybe there is more than one lesson being dished out here eh? Apathy gets you what you deserve... maybe instead of turning on each other - like the unions, the sick, the unemployed etc - we should remember that yes, in a way, we are all in it together. ie We the ordinary people who elect the govt and who pay for every bloody thing !

True.

However, there isn't a magic wand or a bottomless pit of money. We can lay the blame firmly at the door of every British Government from Anthony Eden onwards. They're all guilty of mis-management.

Since we can't undo the past, let's look at the problem OS for a minute and imagine that the British Government was a person whose credit cards were maxed out and house mortgaged to the hilt. Because, that's where we are. For added measure, we've got a spouse who keeps committing us to things we can't afford: an army committed indefinitely in Afghanistan; overseas aid; last decade's toxically expensive Public-Private-Partnerships (the sale, redevelopment and lease back of our hospitals and schools); modern slum clearances which sell off council-owned property to developers, when all they really needed was a new roof, insulation, better windows and indoor plumbing; etc, etc. The question is: if the Government is forced to live within its tax receipts, where should the cuts be made? What behaviours do we change to stop getting deeper in debt?

I think it is easy to blame companies and set them up as a convenient scapegoat. Profitable companies employ staff and pay their wages. Profitable companies pay a decent amount of tax, too. However, when you see a profit figure quoted in the newspaper, remember to look carefully. The number most commonly quoted is PBIT: Profit Before Income and Tax. On that basis, Manchester United is a hugely profitable company, but we all know they are drowning in debt due to leverage financing (a horrible practice in my opinion).


Ultimately, all I can do is the following:-

• Work as hard as possible to get/keep my own financial house in order.
• Invest my surplus on things that grow in value/provide additional income (for further investment) and not on the latest designer handbag.
• Take care of what I have so that it lasts longer and I don't have to keep replacing it.
• Spend my money wisely and not on the latest fad. (How many people do you know who bought new TVs as the result of the digital switchover, instead of buying a cheap set-top box? I know several.)
• Shop locally and be prepared to pay a few pennies more for British grown produce. That may help save a few more farmers from bankruptcy. It'll also improve our food security by reducing the dependency on imports.
• Shop carefully and be prepared to pay a little more for British made goods, if buying new. If I do that, then someone-else in this island will get keep their job instead of seeing it shipped off to China.
• Vote. Particularly in local government elections. Approximately 30% of all government spending gets channeled through local government and yet the turnout for local government elections is appallingly low. Another huge chunk goes to the EU, but you're lucky to get 25% voter turnout for those elections.
• Badger my elected officials so that they keep to the promises they made. Hold them to account. They have constituency surgeries. Every MP has a publically available email address.

We don't have a huge income. Given my qualifications, I am realitively well paid compared to most but I have to be able to pay the mortgage and all the bills on my own since we can't rely on my husband's income and haven't been able to since he was made redundant in 2009. DH worked in manufacturing and has struggled to find work in his field. He's taken every job he can in the last three years: transport surveys, Census collection, working in a shop (that job lasted 8 months). For each of those, his pre-tax income was less than our mortgage repayment. Currently, he's got a contract doing office work and I pray that he'll be made permanent.

All I really want is to be back in the situation where, if my job went south, DH could cover our mortgage and living expenses. Before October 2009, every spare penny we had was saved towards fixing up the house. (All gone on essential repairs in 2010.) Now, I worry what will happen when my 12-years-old, 260,000 miles-on-the-clock car dies. It'll be sooner rather than later. We've already had to buy a car for DH since there is no public transport out to anywhere near where he works.

[ sigh ]

Butterfly_Brain

This is good news in so many ways
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2192918/Poor-harvest-lets-wonky-fruit-misshapen-veg-shops.html

gailey_2

Me and dh are worried and stressed but not discussing it.

its gets us down.

we get by just about on a flat month with no extras

ie somethings broke
bank charges
car costs
birthdays, xmas , back to school.

2012 has been tough.

we have used payday loans as cheaper than going overdrawn with hubbys loanshark of a bank.

we hardly paying anything off the 2credit cards

the loan has another 3years left-once thats paid off we be lot better.

im sahm, dh is middle earner which looks fab on paper,

take into account debts-not built up by luxuries as havent been abroad in 6years but replacing car with another 2nd hand one as old car had so much wrong with it. rising costs of living.

in april-or £40 a month tax credits went
our rent went up-private rent so goes up every year
had few unexpected costs with car.

we try shop around food wise but even basics going up
find we have to shop in liek 4-5places a month to keep costs down.

the milkmans been saviour we pay more but monthly so week before payday we get veg box, eggs , bacon,cheese its been a lifesaver.

just had summer hols only 1school age.

brought all her uniform 2nd hand ebay
been on cheap or free days out sadly not too many picnics in park due to weather.
our veg patch is dire and been foraging but not much out there, very depressing.

middle child starts preschool sept they wont hold place until funding in jan as term after 3rd birthday so have whole term of funding that.

shes also 3in september so been looking for 2nd hand toys off ebay to give her.

all 3kids clothes are all 2nd hand ebay/carboots
we rarly buy clothes for ourselves and then its 2nd hand/cheap.

turn down invites for freinds even to coffee shop as cant afford it.
rarly go down town as thats bus money.

its fair to say we have no disposable income.

see freinds on fb spending small fortune.
makes me feel like a failure.

when people say they skint they have no idea they not in lidls with last fiver trying to buy enough to last the week and give everyone balanced healthy meals.

They not looking very handbag/jacket for change even looking for money on the pavement-its rare these days.

maybe im on a downer today as dh working another long day
its rained and been dark here.

I have bad chest could be chest infection

but would be 2mile walk as cant afford bus fare
then£8prescription antibiotics so will see if it clears

cancelled visiting family monday as thats more money.

brought kids some craft stuff today just new notebooks and felt guilty thinking ohh this is a luxury but they hardly been anywhere this summer.

whats worse I think is we rent in an affluent area
dds schools quite posh looking parents seem to have lots of money and quite a few only children in her class.

outwards looking we keep up appearances guess outside looking in we have lovley life. we the squeezed middle.

we did get given few items of clothes last year not because they assumed we poor just find other mums like to declutter by offloading on other mums-im guilty of that too .

But been grateful as got given some lovley stuff it has helped.

I think lack of money has made us feel more isolated.
we have quite a few freinds with no kids and not nearly as much money problems and feels like they live on different planet.

We have know few people in realife as skint as us. this forum helps to make us realise we not only ones.

fb seems to be about boasting how much they spent and expensive holiday pics.

I worry i make so many excuses not to see people as worried about not going out and turning into a hermit.

I feel embaressed about the shabbyness of home inside rarly invite people round.

I feel bad last 3months we ate so much rubbish food.

i need to do serious store cupboard shop
mea lplan incase winters worse than summer.

im trying to stay positive looking online for cheap things i can make to ensure xmas is special and already starting to find 2nd hand toys on ebay.

I know come xmas day many of my freinds and family will have photos of far more expensive and many more presents than under our tree but hoping to make it special all the same.

I get particuarly down @xmas as feel stressed and going shopping every ones laden with bags whilst i have 10quid to spend on stocking fillers in the £1 shop, stop by coffee restaurant windows and every ones enjoying the festive spirit whilst i satnd outside freezing and maybe buy a choc bar from newsagents to cheer me up.

Butterfly_Brain

Trust me when I say this Gailey you are not alone, and sad to say many more will be joining you next year with the cuts that are coming. We have lived close to the edge all our married lives and even though we don't rent, we still have a mortgage to pay and bills that keep rising exponentially. We have all got to stick together and try and help each other out with ideas for cheap meals, make do and mend and bargain spotting.
Having a good store cupboard and enough money saved to pay even a months worth of rent and bills will stand you in good stead, I know it is easy to say that but benefits take time to kick in if your OH, God forbid, ever got made redundant at least you will survive.
I have been adding to my store cupboard fervently this year because I know next year is going to be a whole lot tougher. You can start a store cupboard with as little as £1 a week A tin of beans 26p, 3 packs of instant custard 6p each 18p, a bag of P flour 52p a tin of mushy peas (MrT 4p) =£1. The following week A bag of SR flour 52p, A tin of mandarins 24p a pack of spaghetti 24p = £1 and so on until you have a good basic stock

I don't know if this will help you but Wilkinsons have a half price sale on at the moment and ZuZu pets are 75% here which works out to £2.50 each, all camping, barbecue and seeds are half price as well x

RAS

Butterfly_Brain wrote: »

I remember the winter of '63 GQ (I was 4) and my dad burning anything that he could to keep us warm, including a billiard table that would be worth thousands these days :eek: But the coal man couldn't get through, so people had to make do with what they had.

I was a little older. When we lived up north my father had a snow plough attachments for the LR. Down south this was not considered necessary. Fortunately he knew how to keep the road open anyway and drove up the lane and to the main cross every half hour all night and until the snow stopped. A day or so later, we drove into the village and the LR left an arch in the tallest drift.

That first morning, I could not see out of the first floor windows and the snow was piled up against the front of the house.

We had no running water for 6 weeks, and mum melted snow from the back yard (we were forbidden to enter) for everything except drinking and washing up. There was one small spring that continued to run so we got a third/half a churn every day for the whole family. I cannot remember what we did about the loo!

There was an AGA and one open wood fire in a large room. The only other heating was an old paraffin heater on the landing that was lit when our folks went to bed (for the worst of the night).

The leccie failed repeatedly but we were used to that. Given her previous experience, we had 6 weeks food in the larder anyway, so even if the butcher and baker could not make it, we were at least fed.

Even the fact that we had enough anthracite was down to my parents having lived where the lorry could not reach in poor weather and making buying enough in the autumn absolute priority.

But, big but, for a family living on the breadline that sort of advance purchasing would be very difficult.