oohh im so excited

devonlad

Mse put up a good fight noddy where are are ppc people? Worried I guess to meet these folk that know the law. I always pay and display and as I live in westcounty its dear. What I don't agree with is bullish bullys charging silly amounts thats not regulated and over inflated read my link you see I got a ticket even though I got a permit

nobby24

devonlad wrote: »

Mse put up a good fight noddy where are are ppc people? Worried I guess to meet these folk that know the law. I always pay and display and as I live in westcounty its dear. What I don't agree with is bullish bullys charging silly amounts thats not regulated and over inflated read my link you see I got a ticket even though I got a permit

Can't help thinking about the Wurzels!

esmerobbo

nobby24 wrote: »

Can't help thinking about the Wurzels!

Except "The Wurzels" come from "Somerset" !!!!!:)

Tigerbush

esmerobbo wrote: »

Except "The Wurzels" come from "Somerset" !!!!!:)

Nobby alert - post not reported

Good old Nobby. How can one man be so wrong so many times?

fivetide

taffy056 wrote: »

The Equalties Act applies here, you can be disabled without a badge, I am considered disabled but have no badge and IMO no need to park in such a bay, but I have the right to do so nonetheless.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/DisabledPeople/MotoringAndTransport/Bluebadgescheme/DG_4001061

Sorry but what does that link prove? People who qualify can have special parking - we know that.

I'd be interested to see the things that have been taken out and why some people who are officially disabled don't have one.

Respect to you for admitting you don't need to use these bays but it would be interesting to see the wider issues at work here.

I say that with a disabled partner who does have a blue badge and needs it.

5t.

bazster

fivetide wrote: »

Sorry but what does that link prove? People who qualify can have special parking - we know that.

I'd be interested to see the things that have been taken out and why some people who are officially disabled don't have one.

The clue is in the very first sentence on that page:

The Blue Badge scheme allows drivers of passengers with severe mobility problems to park close to where they need to go

If you are disabled but without severe mobility problems you are still disabled within the meaning of the Equality Act 2010.

I'm sure there are also people who don't drive and who don't feel that they get lifts from others often enough to make it worth applying for a Blue Badge.

And foreign vistors can't get a Blue Badge, but they could still be disabled within the meaning of the Equality Act 2010.

But whatever one's reasons, one does not have to justify not having a Blue Badge, and if one is disabled then to be denied the use of disabled spaces in private car parks is discrimination and is unlawful.

taffy056

fivetide wrote: »

Sorry but what does that link prove? People who qualify can have special parking - we know that.

I'd be interested to see the things that have been taken out and why some people who are officially disabled don't have one.

Respect to you for admitting you don't need to use these bays but it would be interesting to see the wider issues at work here.

I say that with a disabled partner who does have a blue badge and needs it.

5t.

The link proves that the blue badge scheme does not apply to off street parking from private parking companies, which means that no blue badge needs to be displayed despite what terms are shown. The Equalties Act is quite specific on who is considered disabled, the OP as he has suffered with cancer is treated as a priority under it. But it doesnt mean he will have a blue badge.


Also parking companies invoice people with badges who maybe makes a simple mistake with the badge, like putting it the wrong way on a dash so the text is displayed upside down. Or turn down appeals once someone proves they are disabled, this is not a reasonable adjustment and is in fact illegal.


There are many reasons why people don't have a badge, maybe one of them could be that they don't want to be bracketed as disabled, or they have not considered getting one as there is to much hassle getting one. It still doesn't stop them using disabled parking bays on private land, if they have need then use it.

Coupon-mad

fivetide wrote: »

Sorry but what does that link prove? People who qualify can have special parking - we know that.

I'd be interested to see the things that have been taken out and why some people who are officially disabled don't have one.

Respect to you for admitting you don't need to use these bays but it would be interesting to see the wider issues at work here.

I say that with a disabled partner who does have a blue badge and needs it.

5t.

It doesn't matter what's been taken out of the Blue Badge scheme as it's not Blue Badge Holders alone who 'qualify' to use a disabled bay in a private car park. The scheme simply doesn't apply, never did (in spite of the PPCs signs which lie to make it easier for them to scam people). Instead the EA 2010 applies.

The EA says that service providers have to make reasonable adjustments for customers with a 'protected characteristic'. In the case of disabled bays they have to be available for anyone with a disability as defined under the Act, AND where that disability causes them to need that bay.

So if you look at the definition of disability it's very wide-ranging, so there are plenty of people who would be considered as 'disabled' under the Act but who would NOT need a wider/closer bay in a private car park. Easy examples might be people with a stammer or a facial disfigurement - clearly there are other reasonable adjustments that these people may need in the daily life but a wider/closer bay isn't one of them.

However, think of other disabilities such as these where the person may well not have a Blue Badge:

respiratory conditions, heart conditions, brain conditions, epilepsy, visual impairments, mental ill-health or disability, anyone with a flare-up of debilitating chronic illness such as IBS, Crohns etc..

...the list is actually much longer than that and plenty of those people would be quite right and legally covered in needing to use a bay very close to the store. They don't need the wider bay but they may very well need the closest bay. So they can use a disabled bay without a Blue Badge because - to use your words - the Equality Act says that they are 'officially disabled' (BTW there is no such thing as 'registered disabled' any more, in case anyone wonders, the term went out with the ark).

I am absolutely 100% certain on this issue, I used to be a Disabilty Advice Manager when the DDA was the law (now part of the even better Equality Act). We had a small private car park including a couple of marked 'disabled bays'. Of course no-one had to show a Blue Badge in their car to visit us - as we knew the law and were aware of the needs of our visitors!

On this very forum, we have also had one poster who was discriminated against and shouted at by the megalomaniac high-vis-vest wearing 'attendant' in a car park (he has a leg condition which is obvious, has a long-term effect on his mobility - but no Blue Badge). He contacted these people:

http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/advice-and-guidance/your-rights/disability/

...who had a think about it and then agreed with him/me (being disabled with a condition which gives rise to a need to use such a bay is enough).

The bottom line on all this is, if you know of a private car park where the disabled bays are always full then quite simply, the retailer/occupier/owner needs to be contacted to provide more. As a service provider which deals with the public, it's their duty under the Act to be proactive and check their provision of adjustments and increase the availability, amount, publicity of such provision so that it meets the local need. In the case of disabled bays, that could include a regular survey by a clued-up, EA trained staff member to do a survey of who is parking there with what sort of disability (never mind judgemental Blue Badge spotting, and CERTAINLY never mind issuing fake PCNs to all and sundry by a person with ZERO knowledge of the Act!).

fivetide

bazster wrote: »

I'm sure there are also people who don't drive and who don't feel that they get lifts from others often enough to make it worth applying for a Blue Badge.

Agreed. Not sure the sarcasm that preceeded this was necessary in response to a genuine question though.

Do note the question was about blue badges not equality although the replies have focussed on this...

And foreign vistors can't get a Blue Badge, but they could still be disabled within the meaning of the Equality Act 2010.

Sure several other countries offer them. I'd be happy with an equivalent from the EU for example.

But whatever one's reasons, one does not have to justify not having a Blue Badge, and if one is disabled then to be denied the use of disabled spaces in private car parks is discrimination and is unlawful.

If one is driving one's own car a lot and needs to use disabled spaces then surely one should apply for a blue badge? I am not daft, I see what is being said about the equality act but the question was a genuine interest in what has changed regarding the blue badge scheme and/or how disabled one needs to be.

Severely is a rather loose term don't you think? I do think if someone is capable of piloting a car, especially a manual car then it is very difficult for them to claim they need to be as near the door as possible because if they were in lots of pain it would potentially affect their drving would it not?

Coupon_Mad wrote:

respiratory conditions, heart conditions, brain conditions, epilepsy, visual impairments, mental ill-health or disability, anyone with a flare-up of debilitating chronic illness such as IBS, Crohns etc

Agreed but those people wouldn't be driving would they? I doubt anyone with aflare up of IBS will want to risk sitting in a traffic jam for example.

The issue is do they apply as they get lifts to places and as we know the badge is for the person not the car (which doesn't stop people abusing it of course).

taffy makes some good points:

taffy056 wrote:

The link proves that the blue badge scheme does not apply to off street parking from private parking companies, which means that no blue badge needs to be displayed despite what terms are shown.

Agreed and not in question as stated.

The Equalties Act is quite specific on who is considered disabled, the OP as he has suffered with cancer is treated as a priority under it. But it doesnt mean he will have a blue badge.

Has is the important word here. Also, does it automatically mean that they need to park closer to the door? Emotions removed I do doubt it.

I have had several family members with cancer and perhaps this should be added to the benefits they get when diagnosed? It would be good for anyone being driven around whilst under going treatment as this can sap their energy. I would think if they were ill from the therapy though they would not be able to drive their own car. My uncle could barely get off the sofa towards the end. It was a tragic thing to happen.

Also parking companies invoice people with badges who maybe makes a simple mistake with the badge, like putting it the wrong way on a dash so the text is displayed upside down. Or turn down appeals once someone proves they are disabled, this is not a reasonable adjustment and is in fact illegal.

This has happened to us. As I said, my Mrs has a blue badge and we forgot to put it in one day at the local retail park. I am actually waiting on them follwoing it up.

However, one plus point I can see is that it has stopped all the Bannatyne's Gym customers parking in the disabled bays in front of the cinema because they are too idle to walk to the front door for their work out! (the irony).

With that in mind, I do agree, it's illegal as things stand and I have no truck with these companies but there does need to be a way to protect these spaces for those who do need them. It follows that there needs to be a way to tell who needs them and the blue badge is a good way to do it.

That is what my question was essentially about.

What else do we propose?


5t.

fivetide

Just to clarify I do think there is a serious debate to be had here. Aside from bashing the parking companies, how do you stop abuse of these spaces?

Not everyone has a strong moral compass...that's what the original post was about.

5t.